Israel vs Palestine

[Mr. Shiver]

Sorry to butt in but I'm in favor of Israel as they were attacked first.

Not exactly.

It was Israel who broke the ceasefire. They put a lot of effort in making sure the media keeps the public unaware of this.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/0...thepalestinians

[Mahuta ♥]

Sorry to butt in but I'm in favor of Israel as they were attacked first

Did you read the whole thread before you say this?

As Mr.Shiver said, they broke the ceasefire first. Even if they didnt, I dont see how you can be in favor of Israel after seeing what they did and still do.

that want to 'exterminate' them

Uhh..no. Thats eactly what Israel wants to do to whats left of palestine. Lets just assume you're right, do you think it has the right to break all international laws regarding the use of forbidden weapons or extremely violent weapons? Do you think it has the right to kill civilians including kids and women waaay more than it kills whoever attacked them?i.e. Hamas.

[steam.rice.sally]

Israel and Palestine should be able to solve problems without incentives. We are sick and tired of this stupid game. It is time to cease fire and end this conflict. We don't have time for this nonsense. Why must we use terriorism? Why do people enjoy seeing others in pain? I don't know. All I know is that we do not have 30 more years to spend on this problem.

[Mahuta ♥]

We cant really understand what the palestinian and Israeli citizens that have been attacked feel like because we havent really seen anything. This is similar to what ou said about famine in africa.

You cant just say "they have to stop" its not as simple as it sounds. There are many things that we dont know.

All presidents gross me out. They plan things secretly then tell the public something totally different. Except for the Israeli prime minister..etc, they just say it in your face.

Recently, they have stated that they're going to use extreme violence if Hamas doesnt stop. Yet, Abbas doesnt seem to be worrying at all!

[steam.rice.sally]

22:38 GMT, Thursday, 12 February 2009

A long-term truce between the Palestinian militant group Hamas and Israel may be announced within days.

In 48 hours, Hamas will determine their 18 month cease fire from Israel under the Egyptian-brokered deal. I am so happy this war in the middle east finally has a happy ending after what they have been through for the past 30 years. What do you think?

[Vvi]

It's not over. They didn't decide the status of Jerusalem, the right of return for Palestinian refugees, what to do with the settlement blocs or anything significant. Hamas hasn't released Gilad Shalit, Israel hasn't agreed to talk directly to Hamas. I hardly think it's a "happy ending". It may be a step in the right direction, but nothing more.

[Leen]

I'm gonna be a skeptic and say..

I wonder how long that would last before someone breaks it...

[Abu]

I laugh at your ignorance/innocence/nonchalance of the actual situation as well as reality.

[Mahuta ♥]

A long-term truce between the Palestinian militant group Hamas and Israel may be announced within days.

In 48 hours, Hamas will determine their 18 month cease fire from Israel under the Egyptian-brokered deal. I am so happy this war in the middle east finally has a happy ending after what they have been through for the past 30 years. What do you think?

I really cant believe how simple you're taking things. As Viivi said, its not a happy ending, in fact, its not and ending yet.

Unless the only problem to you is 'they need to cease fire' without looking at the consequences.

And just correcting your info. it's being more than 60 years since this conflic started 1948.

Edited February 13, 2009 by *~*MaHuTa*~*

[Muhammad Fiqri]

to mr kiwifruit

did you ever learn history on how israel nation was formed? posting something like that really shows how little knowledge you have about this topic. next time try not to rely on only one source, try to gather as many resources before you sum up the conclusion. I really agree with Viivi. There are a lot of things that need to be settle in order to get this "happy ending". about the palestinians refugee, the status of jerusalam and not to mention that the Moslems and the Jews really have such an intense dislike against each other.

[URA BOAT]

i will be honest i don't know much about the conflict but what i do know is that their will not be an end....when people are so indoctrinated into a believe to a point that they will blow them self up...i will take more then a cease fire...(WARNING what i will say is not meant to offend anyone and i don't want to make this into a discussion about religion)i am a christian and looking at the bible i find that their will be a short peace between the two when the antichrist will come...but then the Israel will see that how he is and that will be the end of the peace...

[Ezak]

First off, UN created this problem after the world war two when they felt that the jews needed a country to begin with. Of what I know, this whole conflict started when UN felt sorry sorry for the jews after the holocaust. But I believe that once you have created a state like this you can't just go back and denounce Israel. It's a very sensitive conflict as many of the arabic countries behave badly towards Israel while at teh same time Israel is treating the palestinians wrong. the way to a solution will be hard and filled with pain and misery. I just hope some kind of end to the mistreatment of the palestinians will happen and that it'll go to the better from there.

[Mahuta ♥]

Okay I really don't want to get into any arguments again in the Debate forum, so I am just going to comment on one thing.

The only reason Arab countries (Talking about people, not the government) behave badly towards Israel is because Israel is treating Palestinians not just wrong.. inhumane. That is the only reason. If State of Israel was established elsewhere (without invading a country), they wouldn't mind. They are not against Israel as a state, they are against Israel being a state IN Palestine in a way that Palestine wouldn't/doesn't exist anymore, or if by any chance it did..it would be as small as a city.

[El Che]

I had a ToK presentation on Palestinian-Israeli conflict and when I stated my personal opinion that it is the UN's fault to create an Israeli state in the middle of a predominantly Arabic region my teacher seemed to disagree by saying that the UN had no other place to establish such a country and it is a truth that Jews lived in the region many centuries ago. What do you guys think about that?

I personally think that there is a double standard here. If you create an Israeli state, why not recognize a Palestinian state as well? At the end, they also have lived in the region for centuries... I just cannot understand it.

[Procrastination]

I have read most of the arguments of this thread and I don't want to start another debate, as Mahuta said, but let me just post 2 images in here, I think it correctly depicts the whole situation. Perhaps the guy inside the first image should have been painted with scars, that'd have been absolutely accurate. Btw, in the second image I'm pretty sure you can erase 1967 and It would still convey the same message.

Edited November 16, 2011 by Procrastination

[URA BOAT]

why do you think the USA planned the land grab...what do they have from the exepte conflict

[THE IBKID]

I had a ToK presentation on Palestinian-Israeli conflict and when I stated my personal opinion that it is the UN's fault to create an Israeli state in the middle of a predominantly Arabic region my teacher seemed to disagree by saying that the UN had no other place to establish such a country and it is a truth that Jews lived in the region many centuries ago. What do you guys think about that?

I personally think that there is a double standard here. If you create an Israeli state, why not recognize a Palestinian state as well? At the end, they also have lived in the region for centuries... I just cannot understand it.

That just doesn't make sense, you can make the Native Americans rule the USA because they lived their several centuries before. Just because Jews living in Palestine several centuries ago converted to Islam, doesn't mean European Jews should claim Palestine to be their own land, that is just a very warped way of thinking. Arab Jews who didn't convert to Islam were living side by side with Muslims! For Gods sake Arab Jews themselves are discriminated against in modern day Israel!

Make your teacher read this she'll have the shock of her life: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/bookreviews/4838496/Israels-humiliating-discrimination-against-Arab-Jews.html

Edited January 7, 2012 by youssifosama

[David14]

I'm not going to invest time in this post, but just looking through the threads I see comments like:

"Israel killed millions of civilians", "Israel brutally kicked out all the Palestinians from their own land" ect...

Being an Israeli (I don't live in Israel but I visit) I know that 20 % of Israelis are Palestinian who believe it or not live side by side with Israelis, in fact I have many Arab Israeli friends there. Arabs there enjoy the liberty and economics benefits my government gives them (something completely different in neighbouring Syria for example).

If you look at the historic facts there was never in the course of history a "palestinian" land or state, Palestine being a region named by the Ottomans and not a nation, in fact Britan promised the Jews the Palestine region in the balfour declaration, also the Arabs were offered a Palestinian state alongside a Jewish one but unfortunately waged war instead (which as you know backfired).

Also over 1,000,000 Jews were made refugees from Arab countries when Israel was created, so talk about double standard eh? I do want peace and would one day like to visit a Palestinian state alongside Israel, but only if that state will not vow to destroy Israel and stop naming streets over suicide bombers...

Edited January 7, 2012 by gonengg

[THE IBKID]

I'm not going to invest time in this post, but just looking through the threads I see comments like:

"Israel killed millions of civilians", "Israel brutally kicked out all the Palestinians from their own land" ect...

Being an Israeli (I don't live in Israel but I visit) I know that 20 % of Israelis are Palestinian who believe it or not live side by side with Israelis, in fact I have many Arab Israeli friends there. Arabs there enjoy the liberty and economics benefits my government gives them (something completely different in neighbouring Syria for example).

If you look at the historic facts there was never in the course of history a "palestinian" land or state, Palestine being a region named by the Ottomans and not a nation, in fact Britan promised the Jews the Palestine region in the balfour declaration, also the Arabs were offered a Palestinian state alongside a Jewish one but unfortunately waged war instead (which as you know backfired).

Also over 1,000,000 Jews were made refugees from Arab countries when Israel was created, so talk about double standard eh? I do want peace and would one day like to visit a Palestinian state alongside Israel, but only if that state will not vow to destroy Israel and stop naming streets over suicide bombers...

Yes, Palestine was not a nation, it was part of the Ottoman Empire. With the fall of the Ottomans France and England divided all the Arab countries into smaller bits and pieces, making Palestine the once Arab Ottoman land a Zionist state, this is where the conflict emerges.

Have you heard about the "Right of Return" which is a right for all refugees to return to their homeland. This right is enlisted in the UDHR which is signed by all nations in the UN including Israel, but sadly there are 4,375,050 refugees with no where to go, are unable to return to their homeland because of the ruthlessness of the Israeli government which is clearly violating international human rights.

Sorry, but where did you get the information that 1,000,000 were made refugees by Arab countries when Israel was created? Please list a reputable source.

Last point, have you read this (click here) article about Israels discrimination of Arab Jews, if they do so wonder how they discriminate against Arabs who aren't Jewish.

Edited January 7, 2012 by youssifosama

[David14]

Of course I am aware of it. Firstly, the reason there is such a high amount of Palestinians refugees is not because Israel expelled them (in fact Israel offered every Palestinian at the time citizenship, thus the 1,200,000 Arab Israelis) but because of fear of war and Arab leaders command to leave Palestine as they assumed they would have won the war. Also an original 600,000 Palestinians fled Israel, the number you mentioned is a combined third and fourth generation.

The reason there are still refugees after more than six decades is because of Arab leaders' recalcitrance to accept their brethren, why is it that Jordan, Lebanon and Syria refuse to give them citizenship? It is saddening how the Arabs treat the Palestinian refugees.

Why haven't you heard of "Jewish refugees" is because they were subsequently absorbed by the State of Israel, in fact around half of Israelis have some sort of Arab roots (my Grandma was expelled from Morocco and then via France settled to Israel, she can speak full Arabic and Arab culture is somewhat evident in Israeli society). Therefore, "Right of Return" would have to include 3 million Israelis back to their original Arab countries. Any google page will do:

http://en.wikipedia....uslim_countries

I think the best way forward is to either relocate the Palestinians (I say relocate as in adapting to life there and granted citizenship) or the Arab countries should realise that their treatment of Palestinian refugees is immoral and give them citizenship.

Edited January 8, 2012 by gonengg