Luka Petrovic Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Sorry but I'm not a fan of feel good, or smarty pants quotes from either atheists or theists. Doesn't get us anywhere. World War Two didn't need any religion, people were fighting over something just as silly. No one can prove to me that fascism or communism are the ultimate system no more than can someone prove to me their god is better than someone.Both sides truly are equal in more ways than they realize... Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Sorry but I'm not a fan of feel good, or smarty pants quotes from either atheists or theists. Doesn't get us anywhere.World War Two didn't need any religion, people were fighting over something just as silly. No one can prove to me that fascism or communism are the ultimate system no more than can someone prove to me their god is better than someone.Both sides truly are equal in more ways than they realize...That's a nice nihilistic post you got there. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Petrovic Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 How is it nihilistic, its rather fair considering not once was it said "for islam!" or for "protestanism!" during WWII, it was purely idealogical which makes about as much sense as religion. Someones morality is shaped by their religions or lack there of, but it cannot be said that either or makes you more or less moral. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezak Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 And how is that different from how 95%~ of atheist argue? Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Petrovic Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 It isn't. Sorry, didn't make that clear... I'm of the opinion that its really useless bickering. There are theists who worship gods, and atheists who worship greater atheists. There are bigots from both sides, hatred from both sides. Neither is superior. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezak Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 No problem, it's just that in order to be an athiest you don't (and shouldn't really) have to be part of a person cult. Most people look up to famous atheists as they have good arguments and thought out responses, but you don't have to agree 100 % with what they say.On the other hand, in order to be a theist you need to prescribe to certain opinions and people, depending on the denomination. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Petrovic Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 They shouldn't, but they do. Ever been to r/atheism?And well in regards to your argument about having to prescribe to certain opinions, thats not the case with Protestants. They come up with their own theories al the time, because of their idea that religions should be individual and personal. With protestants you can basically justify anything you like. The reasoning behind other unified and more organized religions such Islam, Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity is that not everyone is equipped with the knowledge and education to interpret the bible and other holy writings. Same goes for science, we can't pretend even what we learn in high school is an understanding of scientific theory. The bulk of the knowledge is held and studied by a scientific elite, and we prescribe ourselves to that. Again I make my point, atheists are theists are more alike than they think. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegle Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 I don't believe in a God or multiple gods, but at the same time I don't believe that he/she/they doesn't/don't exist. I haven't been brought up in a religious family (or extended family, for that matter) and I consider myself agnostic.I think that it is possible that the universe was created by an uncaused cause, which can be viewed as a god, but I don't understand why that god would still care about human life and actions in the way that popular religions such as Christianity seem to believe. Surely if a god was omniscient they would already know what was going to happen, anyway. In addition, I don't believe in an afterlife (of course, I don't think you have to be religious to believe in an afterlife, but it does seem to be connected) and I believe that after death, it is most likely that we will cease to exist, because I can see no reason for us to continuing existing. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabz Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 I don't believe in a God or multiple gods, but at the same time I don't believe that he/she/they doesn't/don't exist. I haven't been brought up in a religious family (or extended family, for that matter) and I consider myself agnostic.I think that it is possible that the universe was created by an uncaused cause, which can be viewed as a god, but I don't understand why that god would still care about human life and actions in the way that popular religions such as Christianity seem to believe. Surely if a god was omniscient they would already know what was going to happen, anyway. In addition, I don't believe in an afterlife (of course, I don't think you have to be religious to believe in an afterlife, but it does seem to be connected) and I believe that after death, it is most likely that we will cease to exist, because I can see no reason for us to continuing existing.It's quite ironic that you happen to list all the "i believe in/ i don't believe in" yet you fail to justify a single belief. I think "Dreaming" is the classical example for afterlife. Surely it doesn't suffice but i happened to have dreams which were quite different than my memories whatsoever. I often happen to have unique dreams which i have never experienced in real life, such as the feeling to jump off a building. Now who would have done that in their lifetime but i have dreamed about it and felt it. Isn't that enough as a justification for a life after death? It sure raises point for a debate. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Award Winning Boss Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 It's quite ironic that you happen to list all the "i believe in/ i don't believe in" yet you fail to justify a single belief. I think "Dreaming" is the classical example for afterlife. Surely it doesn't suffice but i happened to have dreams which were quite different than my memories whatsoever. I often happen to have unique dreams which i have never experienced in real life, such as the feeling to jump off a building. Now who would have done that in their lifetime but i have dreamed about it and felt it. Isn't that enough as a justification for a life after death? It sure raises point for a debate.Oh dear, please tell me you're joking. Because you've dreamt of jumping off a building is justification for life after death? It raises no point about life after death at all. The nature of our dreams possibly, but not an afterlife. You're just pulling things out of thin air. 1 Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Petrovic Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Yeah, I'm not sure about the dreams part, but there have been way too many strange "coincidental" occurrences in world to not give a serious consideration that these people did have some sort of out of body/ afterlife experience. Its true however on the other side and contacting the dead is in high demand, so many are liable to be a hoax... Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HayashiEsme Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Even though I don't believe in God, I really like the support system and the aid it's given to people when in need. I think it's a great metaphor for life and how we should live it. Though at the same time, there's much to say about the bad press we've heard with religion. I personally believe that it was man-made because you see so much evidence of stories in the Bible only being relevant to people of that time. And I would think that its teachings should transcend the changing visions of time and culture if it were to be really from a higher being. But each to their own:) Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Petrovic Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) Well unfortunately you can't argue with that... Well except for the argument that it should transcend with time and culture. Well then it wouldn't be unique or universal in anyway, it would be just as mortal as anything else. The hope that things change would be convenient for those who don't agree with the conservative views of some religions. Edited March 24, 2013 by Luka Petrovic Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabz Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 It's quite ironic that you happen to list all the "i believe in/ i don't believe in" yet you fail to justify a single belief. I think "Dreaming" is the classical example for afterlife. Surely it doesn't suffice but i happened to have dreams which were quite different than my memories whatsoever. I often happen to have unique dreams which i have never experienced in real life, such as the feeling to jump off a building. Now who would have done that in their lifetime but i have dreamed about it and felt it. Isn't that enough as a justification for a life after death? It sure raises point for a debate.Oh dear, please tell me you're joking. Because you've dreamt of jumping off a building is justification for life after death? It raises no point about life after death at all. The nature of our dreams possibly, but not an afterlife. You're just pulling things out of thin air. You know that us humans are very much dependent on example and we like to make comparisons when we try to understand something. Different people would have different image of afterlife even if one doesn't believe in it, one would at least imagine it at least once in one's life time. So it depends, what you take by the term afterlife. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaby Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 It's quite ironic that you happen to list all the "i believe in/ i don't believe in" yet you fail to justify a single belief. I think "Dreaming" is the classical example for afterlife. Surely it doesn't suffice but i happened to have dreams which were quite different than my memories whatsoever. I often happen to have unique dreams which i have never experienced in real life, such as the feeling to jump off a building. Now who would have done that in their lifetime but i have dreamed about it and felt it. Isn't that enough as a justification for a life after death? It sure raises point for a debate.Oh dear, please tell me you're joking. Because you've dreamt of jumping off a building is justification for life after death? It raises no point about life after death at all. The nature of our dreams possibly, but not an afterlife. You're just pulling things out of thin air. You know that us humans are very much dependent on example and we like to make comparisons when we try to understand something. Different people would have different image of afterlife even if one doesn't believe in it, one would at least imagine it at least once in one's life time. So it depends, what you take by the term afterlife.What does it all have to do with anything you said? Whether one has a belief in afterlife or not, whether they imagined it or not, does it have anything to do with your out-of-the-blue "argument" about dreaming? I often dream about cheating on my boyfriend, and I've never cheated on him or any of the previous ones. Does it mean I was a cheating ***** in my previous life? Cool. 1 Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Petrovic Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Agreed, I'm not sure how the dream argument comes into this... Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabz Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) argh, i've proven my point long ago and i feel like bumping my head against a wall now as you guys seem to pick on my words really or maybe i'm not able to convey what i'm trying to say.Let me dumb it down: (not trying to be offensive btw)It is evident that human brain "dies" after a period of time, from the moment the heart stops working. Those people can "hear" the sounds even if their heart has stopped beating i.e they're dead then how the **** are they listening to the surrounding sounds for a while, or at least that's what we think that their brain completely dies after a period of time. This means that people who die, may be "alive" for a period of time after that. By alive i mean, their "sense" may be active. Edited March 24, 2013 by shad0wboss Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezak Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Well, give us examples from clinically tested claims that has been evaluated. Furthermore if these anecdotes exist, it merely shows that the point of death has to be re- evaluated as the brain survives without oxygen for longer than expected. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwich Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 argh, i've proven my point long ago and i feel like bumping my head against a wall now as you guys seem to pick on my words really or maybe i'm not able to convey what i'm trying to say.Let me dumb it down: (not trying to be offensive btw)It is evident that human brain "dies" after a period of time, from the moment the heart stops working. Those people can "hear" the sounds even if their heart has stopped beating i.e they're dead then how the **** are they listening to the surrounding sounds for a while, or at least that's what we think that their brain completely dies after a period of time. This means that people who die, may be "alive" for a period of time after that. By alive i mean, their "sense" may be active. People continue to have some brain activity for a short period of time after their heart has stopped beating. I suppose the real question is: so what? I've painted a picture. So what? Doesn't make me the next Picasso. You're drawing a conclusion which isn't even there. Dreams, the brain continuing to work as it gradually becomes starved of oxygen, they're biological things that happen. We can induce these things by giving people drugs. We can 'kill' people's brains and stick them into comas and then bring them back again. Does that mean we've discovered the secret of resurrection and anaesthetists are living gods? No. It's just a load of waffle, you can't possibly leap to any kind of conclusion from it.So what if people have brain activity after their heart has stopped beating, you're literally making no valid point from bringing it up. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Petrovic Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 There was that one clinical test where they locked a dying person into an air tight seal container and when his vital dropped to clinically dead sealed it shut... There was a minute, extremely minute change in weight... Although it might not be a proof of god, some take it as proof of having a soul that leaves the body http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_MacDougall_(doctor) ... but they could never recreate it it again.... so good luck! Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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