mixmaster Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 mmm are you sure it's correct? I've just tried to work out the general statement of En(r ) and I got a quite complicated formula in terms of n and r. it did require some effort to get to the general statement. there are many ways to get to the GS but I myself used the graphical method (b/c I'm lazy...) but if you know how to find it using another method, go for it. I personally don't favour the graphical method (plotting a graph and finding the best fit curve) for a Math IA, though it's a use of technology The numerator part is very obvious and easy, right? So I don't need to discuss it. After you found the 6th and 7th rows, draw a new triangle if possible so you can see the patterns more easily. Remember that 1 is the 1st term in each row, and in this term r=0. When r=1 (the 2nd term from the left), get a table of the denominators and the n (n starts from 2). Then you find the GS for the denominator in terms of n. When r=2 (the 3rd term from the left), get a table of the denominators and the n (n starts from 3). Then you find the GS for the denominator in terms of n. When r=3 (the 4th term from the left), get a table of the denominators and the n (n starts from 4). Then you find the GS for the denominator in terms of n. Do the same thing for when r=4 and when r=5. You've got all the general statements in terms of n. Now your goal is to make them to be ONE general statement in terms of r and n. Hint: The general statement is in quadratic form (denominator=an²+bn+c) Tabulate r and the general statements. I am sure you will see some kind of pattern in the values of a, b and c. Find them with a similar method as before, Get a table of a and r. Then you find the GS for a in terms of r. Get a table of b and r. Then you find the GS for b in terms of r. Get a table of c and r. Then you find the GS for c in terms of r. So you've got a, b and c. Put them in the general statement involving n. You will get the GS for the denominator in terms of n and r. This task is fairly easy, though it seems complicated in the beginning. Good luck to all of you!! why does n start from 2 when r = 1 shouldnt it start from row 1 because the second 1 is actually a 1/1????? dude, robby, i have no ****ing clue either, did u see what i wrote to u earlier? check post #459, and quote me on it so i can see it. thanks so ive found the 6th and 7th row easily but forming a general statement for En® has stumped me, how would i go about doing this? Does it need to be a set formula? manram, i have no clue ethier, like i agreed, finding answer is easy, but coming up with GS is hard. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manney106 Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) mmm are you sure it's correct? I've just tried to work out the general statement of En(r ) and I got a quite complicated formula in terms of n and r. it did require some effort to get to the general statement. there are many ways to get to the GS but I myself used the graphical method (b/c I'm lazy...) but if you know how to find it using another method, go for it. I personally don't favour the graphical method (plotting a graph and finding the best fit curve) for a Math IA, though it's a use of technology The numerator part is very obvious and easy, right? So I don't need to discuss it. After you found the 6th and 7th rows, draw a new triangle if possible so you can see the patterns more easily. Remember that 1 is the 1st term in each row, and in this term r=0. When r=1 (the 2nd term from the left), get a table of the denominators and the n (n starts from 2). Then you find the GS for the denominator in terms of n. When r=2 (the 3rd term from the left), get a table of the denominators and the n (n starts from 3). Then you find the GS for the denominator in terms of n. When r=3 (the 4th term from the left), get a table of the denominators and the n (n starts from 4). Then you find the GS for the denominator in terms of n. Do the same thing for when r=4 and when r=5. You've got all the general statements in terms of n. Now your goal is to make them to be ONE general statement in terms of r and n. Hint: The general statement is in quadratic form (denominator=an²+bn+c) Tabulate r and the general statements. I am sure you will see some kind of pattern in the values of a, b and c. Find them with a similar method as before, Get a table of a and r. Then you find the GS for a in terms of r. Get a table of b and r. Then you find the GS for b in terms of r. Get a table of c and r. Then you find the GS for c in terms of r. So you've got a, b and c. Put them in the general statement involving n. You will get the GS for the denominator in terms of n and r. This task is fairly easy, though it seems complicated in the beginning. Good luck to all of you!! why does n start from 2 when r = 1 shouldnt it start from row 1 because the second 1 is actually a 1/1????? hm, that does seem complicated, how would i graph it (because im lazy lol). Edited March 18, 2012 by manney106 Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbydobby Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 OK, AND I HAVE A CONFLICT HERE.the posts in the 20s, help form desy glau, say x-axis= row number (2,3,4,5) and y-axis=denominator (2,4,7,11)yet my pal robbydobby said element number on y-axis and denominator on x-axis...dude i tried his way and i got a pattern kinda its really hard to generalize though... My way is simple and it got the right answer as well so idk??? ima keep working on his way though. IF you are doing my way rememeber what makes a number equal to 1. the 0th element does count.. say all the emelements in row 3. (0,1,2,3) and denominators are (6,4,4,6) you get a nice parabola (same equation as quadratic). idk ima keep working on his way though :/ Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbydobby Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 mmm are you sure it's correct? I've just tried to work out the general statement of En(r ) and I got a quite complicated formula in terms of n and r. it did require some effort to get to the general statement. there are many ways to get to the GS but I myself used the graphical method (b/c I'm lazy...) but if you know how to find it using another method, go for it. I personally don't favour the graphical method (plotting a graph and finding the best fit curve) for a Math IA, though it's a use of technology The numerator part is very obvious and easy, right? So I don't need to discuss it. After you found the 6th and 7th rows, draw a new triangle if possible so you can see the patterns more easily. Remember that 1 is the 1st term in each row, and in this term r=0. When r=1 (the 2nd term from the left), get a table of the denominators and the n (n starts from 2). Then you find the GS for the denominator in terms of n. When r=2 (the 3rd term from the left), get a table of the denominators and the n (n starts from 3). Then you find the GS for the denominator in terms of n. When r=3 (the 4th term from the left), get a table of the denominators and the n (n starts from 4). Then you find the GS for the denominator in terms of n. Do the same thing for when r=4 and when r=5. You've got all the general statements in terms of n. Now your goal is to make them to be ONE general statement in terms of r and n. Hint: The general statement is in quadratic form (denominator=an²+bn+c) Tabulate r and the general statements. I am sure you will see some kind of pattern in the values of a, b and c. Find them with a similar method as before, Get a table of a and r. Then you find the GS for a in terms of r. Get a table of b and r. Then you find the GS for b in terms of r. Get a table of c and r. Then you find the GS for c in terms of r. So you've got a, b and c. Put them in the general statement involving n. You will get the GS for the denominator in terms of n and r. This task is fairly easy, though it seems complicated in the beginning. Good luck to all of you!! why does n start from 2 when r = 1 shouldnt it start from row 1 because the second 1 is actually a 1/1????? dude, robby, i have no ****ing clue either, did u see what i wrote to u earlier? check post #459, and quote me on it so i can see it. thanks so ive found the 6th and 7th row easily but forming a general statement for En® has stumped me, how would i go about doing this? Does it need to be a set formula? manram, i have no clue ethier, like i agreed, finding answer is easy, but coming up with GS is hard. ive got the pattern a remains at 1/2 be goes from (-1/2) - 1 each element and c goes from 1,3,9.... idk wtf to do know lmfao Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixmaster Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 OK GUYS, I HAVE THE FORMULA FOR THE GS!!!HERE IT IS, BUT SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO GET THERE~!!!!! THANKS PALZ.http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=280906918638036&set=a.257570664304995.60713.148350915226971&type=1&theater Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbydobby Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 mmm are you sure it's correct? I've just tried to work out the general statement of En(r ) and I got a quite complicated formula in terms of n and r. it did require some effort to get to the general statement. there are many ways to get to the GS but I myself used the graphical method (b/c I'm lazy...) but if you know how to find it using another method, go for it. I personally don't favour the graphical method (plotting a graph and finding the best fit curve) for a Math IA, though it's a use of technology The numerator part is very obvious and easy, right? So I don't need to discuss it. After you found the 6th and 7th rows, draw a new triangle if possible so you can see the patterns more easily. Remember that 1 is the 1st term in each row, and in this term r=0. When r=1 (the 2nd term from the left), get a table of the denominators and the n (n starts from 2). Then you find the GS for the denominator in terms of n. When r=2 (the 3rd term from the left), get a table of the denominators and the n (n starts from 3). Then you find the GS for the denominator in terms of n. When r=3 (the 4th term from the left), get a table of the denominators and the n (n starts from 4). Then you find the GS for the denominator in terms of n. Do the same thing for when r=4 and when r=5. You've got all the general statements in terms of n. Now your goal is to make them to be ONE general statement in terms of r and n. Hint: The general statement is in quadratic form (denominator=an²+bn+c) Tabulate r and the general statements. I am sure you will see some kind of pattern in the values of a, b and c. Find them with a similar method as before, Get a table of a and r. Then you find the GS for a in terms of r. Get a table of b and r. Then you find the GS for b in terms of r. Get a table of c and r. Then you find the GS for c in terms of r. So you've got a, b and c. Put them in the general statement involving n. You will get the GS for the denominator in terms of n and r. This task is fairly easy, though it seems complicated in the beginning. Good luck to all of you!! why does n start from 2 when r = 1 shouldnt it start from row 1 because the second 1 is actually a 1/1????? dude, robby, i have no ****ing clue either, did u see what i wrote to u earlier? check post #459, and quote me on it so i can see it. thanks so ive found the 6th and 7th row easily but forming a general statement for En® has stumped me, how would i go about doing this? Does it need to be a set formula? manram, i have no clue ethier, like i agreed, finding answer is easy, but coming up with GS is hard. ive got the pattern a remains at 1/2 be goes from (-1/2) - 1 each element and c goes from 1,3,9.... idk wtf to do know lmfao please im so close to the GS desy if you could please come out of hiding and help us im sure we all would be very greatful. i no that c = r^2 what about a and b? i connot generalize them Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixmaster Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 mmm are you sure it's correct? I've just tried to work out the general statement of En(r ) and I got a quite complicated formula in terms of n and r. it did require some effort to get to the general statement. there are many ways to get to the GS but I myself used the graphical method (b/c I'm lazy...) but if you know how to find it using another method, go for it. I personally don't favour the graphical method (plotting a graph and finding the best fit curve) for a Math IA, though it's a use of technology The numerator part is very obvious and easy, right? So I don't need to discuss it. After you found the 6th and 7th rows, draw a new triangle if possible so you can see the patterns more easily. Remember that 1 is the 1st term in each row, and in this term r=0. When r=1 (the 2nd term from the left), get a table of the denominators and the n (n starts from 2). Then you find the GS for the denominator in terms of n. When r=2 (the 3rd term from the left), get a table of the denominators and the n (n starts from 3). Then you find the GS for the denominator in terms of n. When r=3 (the 4th term from the left), get a table of the denominators and the n (n starts from 4). Then you find the GS for the denominator in terms of n. Do the same thing for when r=4 and when r=5. You've got all the general statements in terms of n. Now your goal is to make them to be ONE general statement in terms of r and n. Hint: The general statement is in quadratic form (denominator=an²+bn+c) Tabulate r and the general statements. I am sure you will see some kind of pattern in the values of a, b and c. Find them with a similar method as before, Get a table of a and r. Then you find the GS for a in terms of r. Get a table of b and r. Then you find the GS for b in terms of r. Get a table of c and r. Then you find the GS for c in terms of r. So you've got a, b and c. Put them in the general statement involving n. You will get the GS for the denominator in terms of n and r. This task is fairly easy, though it seems complicated in the beginning. Good luck to all of you!! why does n start from 2 when r = 1 shouldnt it start from row 1 because the second 1 is actually a 1/1????? dude, robby, i have no ****ing clue either, did u see what i wrote to u earlier? check post #459, and quote me on it so i can see it. thanks so ive found the 6th and 7th row easily but forming a general statement for En® has stumped me, how would i go about doing this? Does it need to be a set formula? manram, i have no clue ethier, like i agreed, finding answer is easy, but coming up with GS is hard. ive got the pattern a remains at 1/2 be goes from (-1/2) - 1 each element and c goes from 1,3,9.... idk wtf to do know lmfao please im so close to the GS desy if you could please come out of hiding and help us im sure we all would be very greatful. i no that c = r^2 what about a and b? i connot generalize them THIS mMIGHT BE REPETITIVE, BUT A IS OCNSTANT, AND B IS (-1)..SO IF U GOT 0.5, THEN IT IS -0.5 Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBscrewed291 Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) What is meant by giving a "formal proof of the general statement" and an "informal justification"? Also, is it enough to calculate extra rows to test the validity of the general statement? Edited March 18, 2012 by IBscrewed291 Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbydobby Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 mmm are you sure it's correct? I've just tried to work out the general statement of En(r ) and I got a quite complicated formula in terms of n and r. it did require some effort to get to the general statement. there are many ways to get to the GS but I myself used the graphical method (b/c I'm lazy...) but if you know how to find it using another method, go for it. I personally don't favour the graphical method (plotting a graph and finding the best fit curve) for a Math IA, though it's a use of technology The numerator part is very obvious and easy, right? So I don't need to discuss it. After you found the 6th and 7th rows, draw a new triangle if possible so you can see the patterns more easily. Remember that 1 is the 1st term in each row, and in this term r=0. When r=1 (the 2nd term from the left), get a table of the denominators and the n (n starts from 2). Then you find the GS for the denominator in terms of n. When r=2 (the 3rd term from the left), get a table of the denominators and the n (n starts from 3). Then you find the GS for the denominator in terms of n. When r=3 (the 4th term from the left), get a table of the denominators and the n (n starts from 4). Then you find the GS for the denominator in terms of n. Do the same thing for when r=4 and when r=5. You've got all the general statements in terms of n. Now your goal is to make them to be ONE general statement in terms of r and n. Hint: The general statement is in quadratic form (denominator=an²+bn+c) Tabulate r and the general statements. I am sure you will see some kind of pattern in the values of a, b and c. Find them with a similar method as before, Get a table of a and r. Then you find the GS for a in terms of r. Get a table of b and r. Then you find the GS for b in terms of r. Get a table of c and r. Then you find the GS for c in terms of r. So you've got a, b and c. Put them in the general statement involving n. You will get the GS for the denominator in terms of n and r. This task is fairly easy, though it seems complicated in the beginning. Good luck to all of you!! why does n start from 2 when r = 1 shouldnt it start from row 1 because the second 1 is actually a 1/1????? dude, robby, i have no ****ing clue either, did u see what i wrote to u earlier? check post #459, and quote me on it so i can see it. thanks so ive found the 6th and 7th row easily but forming a general statement for En® has stumped me, how would i go about doing this? Does it need to be a set formula? manram, i have no clue ethier, like i agreed, finding answer is easy, but coming up with GS is hard. ive got the pattern a remains at 1/2 be goes from (-1/2) - 1 each element and c goes from 1,3,9.... idk wtf to do know lmfao please im so close to the GS desy if you could please come out of hiding and help us im sure we all would be very greatful. i no that c = r^2 what about a and b? i connot generalize them THIS mMIGHT BE REPETITIVE, BUT A IS OCNSTANT, AND B IS (-1)..SO IF U GOT 0.5, THEN IT IS -0.5 so if you put that in terms or r you would get what for the denominator i cant generalize it... yes b is -1 everytime i know that and a is constant. i found c is r^2. so heres my best generalization and i know its wrong but. 1/2 n^2 - (1/2)n + r^2 lol its so bad its not even funny.. here my table for r and the b. r b 1 -0.5 2 -1.5 3 -2.5 4 -3.5 i cant generilize that in terms of r and n??????? Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahgernannt Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 OK GUYS, I HAVE THE FORMULA FOR THE GS!!!HERE IT IS, BUT SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO GET THERE~!!!!! THANKS PALZ.http://www.facebook....&type=1We aren't supposed to post answers, silly. This forum is for guidance.I don't think that's right, anyway.I got my equation by sitting down with pencil and paper for the past seven hours. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixmaster Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 OK GUYS, I HAVE THE FORMULA FOR THE GS!!!HERE IT IS, BUT SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO GET THERE~!!!!! THANKS PALZ.http://www.facebook....&type=1We aren't supposed to post answers, silly. This forum is for guidance.I don't think that's right, anyway.I got my equation by sitting down with pencil and paper for the past seven hours.oh sarah...the world of the IB is dirty.**** goes down, answers are the only answers.that si correct. it is verified.just dont know how to get there.OK GUYS, I HAVE THE FORMULA FOR THE GS!!!HERE IT IS, BUT SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO GET THERE~!!!!! THANKS PALZ.http://www.facebook....&type=1We aren't supposed to post answers, silly. This forum is for guidance.I don't think that's right, anyway.I got my equation by sitting down with pencil and paper for the past seven hours.oh sarah...the world of the IB is dirty.**** goes down, answers are the only answers.that si correct. it is verified.just dont know how to get there..... Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddlibbs Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 This forum saved me. Thanks! Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delan.elliot Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) You guys seem pretty close, but not quite there.once you've done the quadratic regression, you're gonna get parameters a, b, and c. (I know, you've already got them)as you've already stated, A is constant. C is r squared. You need to state how b varies with r. (It's quite a simple relationship.) Edited March 19, 2012 by delan.elliot Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicksoneliza Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 So to state how b varies with r, should I make another table.. ? Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbydobby Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 You guys seem pretty close, but not quite there. once you've done the quadratic regression, you're gonna get parameters a, b, and c. (I know, you've already got them) as you've already stated, A is constant. C is r squared. You need to state how b varies with r. (It's quite a simple relationship.) its nor simple lol well it is but i just cant get it. i wrote it as decimals too. r b 1 -o.5 2 -1.5 3 -2.5 4 -3.5 i know i see the pattern i cannot generalize this so far i got this equation for the denominator 1/2 n^2 + b(n) + r^2 just need b close but no cigar please help me. untill i get this i fear that i will be doing bad in all my classes, i just focus on generalizing this and its making me so mad. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbydobby Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 You guys seem pretty close, but not quite there. once you've done the quadratic regression, you're gonna get parameters a, b, and c. (I know, you've already got them) as you've already stated, A is constant. C is r squared. You need to state how b varies with r. (It's quite a simple relationship.) its nor simple lol well it is but i just cant get it. i wrote it as decimals too. r b 1 -o.5 2 -1.5 3 -2.5 4 -3.5 i know i see the pattern i cannot generalize this so far i got this equation for the denominator 1/2 n^2 + b(n) + r^2 just need b close but no cigar please help me. untill i get this i fear that i will be doing bad in all my classes, i just focus on generalizing this and its making me so mad. wait tell me if this is right. is the relationship -r + 1/2 for be it looks right!!!!! Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbydobby Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 You guys seem pretty close, but not quite there. once you've done the quadratic regression, you're gonna get parameters a, b, and c. (I know, you've already got them) as you've already stated, A is constant. C is r squared. You need to state how b varies with r. (It's quite a simple relationship.) its nor simple lol well it is but i just cant get it. i wrote it as decimals too. r b 1 -o.5 2 -1.5 3 -2.5 4 -3.5 i know i see the pattern i cannot generalize this so far i got this equation for the denominator 1/2 n^2 + b(n) + r^2 just need b close but no cigar please help me. untill i get this i fear that i will be doing bad in all my classes, i just focus on generalizing this and its making me so mad. wait tell me if this is right. is the relationship -r + 1/2 for be it looks right!!!!! holy crap it works thanks so much i love you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thank you Jesus!!!!!!! ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh im so happy!!!!!!!! yes yes yes yes yes omg 5 days of staring at this worked holy crap yes yes. also thank you eliot. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clau.csb Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Hi everyone! I had no trouble with the mathematical part of the investigation, but I'm having trouble specially with "Discuss the scope and/or limitations of the general statement"! also: informal justification? wtf? I just wrote that I found the GS with the GDC and also algebraically (matrices...) is that what they ask?? Any advicee??!!! greaatly appreaciated!!!!! Thaankyou!!!! :) :) ps: mine's for wednesday Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pola1643 Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) hey gang!so i see the pattern for the whole En® question, but i don't know how to come to a general statement. anyone have some advice? should i graph it?alsoo, for the En®, the pattern for the numerator and the denominator is different, right? for the numerator, E3(2)=6, E4(2)=10, E5(2)=15... and for the denominator it is E3(2)=4, E4(2)=6, E5(2)=9...how do i make it one formula. Edited March 26, 2012 by pola1643 Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konstantino Angelo Mira Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Could someone please send me their IA pdf, because I am so confused Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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