Theory of Knowledge: The Verdict

[Guest]

NO must of us dont...hell..TOK needs good teacher...you cant go ANYWHERE without one.

[rjh4509]

Let me put it this way: My TOK teacher is the one who developed the model that IB will now be using to develop their TOK exam. Yes, exam. While my teacher is absolutely brilliant, he also expects us to be nothing less. I haven't read all the way through this thread, so I don't know if anyone else uses the system of post-and-response in TOK. We're all members of a GoogleGroup where at the end of each week we have to write a thoughtful and reflective post analyzing something that we've either encountered in our readings, discussed in class or come across in other aspects of our lives that can be analyzed using "TOK lenses" (ways of knowing, areas of knowledge, etc.) After we've posted on the group, our post is then graded, and we have the weekend to write a well-planned response to someone else's post addressing their positions. We're graded on a 1-5 point scale (although no one in the history of the class has EVER gotten a 5, so it's basically 1-4) and average grade is a 3. At the beginning of the class, our teacher passes out letters to all the people who really, REALLY care about their GPA to give to their parents. The letter basically says that since the average grade on post-and-response is a 3, which is only 75%, the class will most certainly kill the student's GPA, the teacher doesn't give a damn, and if your student is worth anything at all, they'll figure it out. Any questions? Too bad. Most people start off the class getting anywhere from 2's to 3's on their posts and responses, simply because it takes a while to start really analyzing things from a TOK perspective. So life sucks for the first month or so, until you figure things out. Then you might upgrade to a 3.5. By the end of the semester, that's what most people were getting.

Oh, and in case any of you were wondering what the future TOK exams will look like...

A blank piece of paper to list and define 30 fallacies off the top of your head (15 minutes)

An article on any random topic, which you will have 20 minutes to read, colormark and annotate

And then 20 more minutes to write a thoughtful and detailed analysis.

The actual IB version might have a little more to it, but that was our final, and that's the base model.

[rjh4509]

I hate TOK sooooo much. Part of my hatred is the fact that TOK is a zero hour at my school, which means it starts at 6:30. Thankfully, it's only three times a week, 2nd semester junior year and first semester senior year. Basically we just talk, and the talking is so abstract it's useless. Plus my teacher let certain people monopolize the conversation. But he retired, so in the fall we have a new teacher who's studying to be a pastor (should be interesting!)

Am I the only one with zero hour, half 11th grade, half 12th grade TOK?

Nope, that's exactly how we do it. Except a lot of the TOK students (myself included) are in jazz band zero hour, so, not only are we at school at 6:30 every day, but 3 times a week we also have to stay an hour after for TOK. And that's an hour only if we don't get into a long discussion...then it tends to stretch.

[CielNoir]

I think that Theory of Knowledge is an useless class, it basically is a forum for discussion on topics that are aren't shallow; open to profound insight.I think that Theory of Knowledge is an useless class, it basically is a forum for discussion on topics that are aren't shallow; open to profound insight.

Now, the question is, how do you teach a person to think at the sublime level and make the esoteric things understandable? You can't, common sense is unteachable. The point of a class is to teach, you can't teach ToK. So what's the point of the class, they should just replace this class with a class for IB students to just have time to work on their IA's, EE's, and ToK essay.

As Voltaire said, "Common sense is not so common."

[Hasta Manana]

I can image how happy those students are who have Van De Lagemaat as their teacher

Our teacher is really good too, though

[larry]

wow. ToK exams sound pretty intimidating.

The concept of ToK is pretty good and entirely in keeping with the IB student learner profile: the idea is to make students consider how they actually know stuff - to think critically, with an emphasis on being able to consider things from another perspective, and so question their own assumptions. What can be an issue is the way it's taught, which can vary wildly in style but most importantly in effectiveness - ToK classes are deadly dull at my school, but actually reading the textbook (IB = nerd already) - i.e. the content is really interesting. Considering this uneveness, maybe there needs to be more guidelines for teachers - so much of our classtime seems to have been wasted doing stuff that was neither ToK-ly stimulating nor relevant to the assessment tasks.

What is definitely an issue is the way ToK is assessed. I can see it's pretty difficult - telling the bs from real "engagement with the issues" etc. is not always clear. Does anyone knwo how they assess philosophy at university or something? But, for example, asking students to come up with an original definition of knowledge for their essay. WTF? Obviously you have to set some parameters for what knowledge is, but coming up with an original definition of knowledge itself? Practically the entire point of ToK itself? And it's not even the main part of the essay (yes, the main part of the essay is about knowledge, but it's in the more defined region of answering the question). What I'm saying is it's difficult to assess how much a student has actually questioned their own asssumptions, actually considered why they think a certain way, why they think certain things are "true" and what that actually means, and the current criteria and assessments are somewhat imperfect ways of doing this.

[RoflWaffle]

I am enjoying the class, but as some said, the marking system is too ambiguous. I've written an essay in an hour and gotten near perfect while some students who spend days working will get nearly 50%. While I understand that critical thinking comes more naturally to some than others, the marking system doesn't give any lenient marks towards those that aren't as familiar. A lot of people still use the formal writing styles taught in English and History where ToK doesn't use that. It's technically IB's fault for ingraining our minds with more factual works and theories than observing them. My point is that ToK is a minefield for IB thinkers.

Also, Larry, I'm not an IB nerd. The accepted term is geek.

[larry]

@ RoflWaffle: My bad.

According to a friend "nerd" is less perjorative. Obviously cultural differences...

[Sandwich]

What is definitely an issue is the way ToK is assessed. I can see it's pretty difficult - telling the bs from real "engagement with the issues" etc. is not always clear. Does anyone knwo how they assess philosophy at university or something? But, for example, asking students to come up with an original definition of knowledge for their essay. WTF? Obviously you have to set some parameters for what knowledge is, but coming up with an original definition of knowledge itself? Practically the entire point of ToK itself? And it's not even the main part of the essay (yes, the main part of the essay is about knowledge, but it's in the more defined region of answering the question). What I'm saying is it's difficult to assess how much a student has actually questioned their own asssumptions, actually considered why they think a certain way, why they think certain things are "true" and what that actually means, and the current criteria and assessments are somewhat imperfect ways of doing this.

Actually Philosophy, totally unlike Theory of Knowledge, is an abstract subject but with a methodology that is both analytical and intensely logical. So you can actually mark Philosophy essays with much greater ease/actual ability to ascertain how well somebody is doing than TOK. In Philosophy it's the clarity of your thinking and the poignancy/fluidity of your arguments that counts, not the BS quota. Whereas in TOK it's about whether you can invent a suitably original personal example of something which may or may not have happened to you and appeals to an examiner.

I have no idea how you'd ever mark TOK essays myself. My TOK teacher was an examiner/reasonably important in the TOK marking process (involved in setting out the criteria etc.) and hats off to him, he was really good, but the TOK essay he estimated at a high A after running through it turned out to be a low B when it got sent off to the actual marker. Equally some of my friends had serious grade improvements and went from C --> A. I don't blame my teacher but I do think that there's clearly a lot of subjectivity going on when grades can bounce around so freely, and it's that (coupled with the general pointlessness of TOK) that really winds me up.

[larry]

Actually Philosophy, totally unlike Theory of Knowledge, ... [has] a methodology that is both analytical and intensely logical.

The (knowledge) issues that arise when you set out to question logic? (and other methods of knowing?)

Sorry, irresistible. But actually rather true - how do you know it's a good ToK essay...

[JustAnotherAsian]

Mindless brainwash and useless information

bul****ting your way through this class

Hmm seems alright.

No But seriously this class sucks, unlike other schools we have it every other day for 1.5 hours in our 2 years of IB.

The thing about this is how very subjective these english classes are.

[C.James]

I'm finding this enjoyable; my teacher is good. However I noticed that there are a large number of people who just don't "get it"

[Zadamanim]

My ToK teacher is horrible and doesn't explain anything. My class is redoing the presentation because no one knew what a knowledge issue was nor how to include it. Redo's start the monday after thanksgiving break, so we have to do that over the break. also assigned the final prescribed topic who's place on the timeline was replaced by the redo's over the 1-week break. Guess who got a day off from school? not me! and i was hoping to have at least 1 day away from school every few months :C

[mollusc]

hate passionately. i have never been so terrible at a subject and seen sooo many C and D grades. fml.

[Wen]

Verdict after busting my balls for 4 hours trying to think of an interesting valid example for my TOK essay:

TOK IS JUST A ****ING PILE OF **** THAT WE SHOULD ONLY THINK ABOUT SUBJECTIVELY AND NOT STUDY OBJECTIVELY. FOR, DESPITE THE FACT THAT ABSOLUTE TRUTH DOES EXIST AND QUESTIONING SUCH IS INTERESTING AND FASCINATING, THE STUDY OF THIS IS IRRELEVANT AND USELESS TO AN AVERAGE HUMAN WHO SEEKS ONLY AND ONLY TO SUCCEED AND ENJOY LIFE./ end of rage caps

I am no Eisntein, nor do I pretend to be. I just want to get into a good university, get a good job, get the dough and live a carefree life with my girl. I tend to not give a **** about whether "how do we know?" or "what is truth?"

For all I care, we can all be idiots and not know **** as long as we are all happy.

Just meh too sents on dis cow waste.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Wen

[BronxNerd]

I actually had to do work in my class. There was this new kid that came from California, and he said that all he did in his class was watch the Matrix.

[Rebel]

The subject is really complicated... We watched "The life of the others", the movie was really hardcore )) Did u have to write TOK reflection in the end of the course?

[Proletariat]

Our class was taught extremely poorly. The ToK teacher was our History teacher. The guy doesn't care for Philosophy. He did try, I can't fault him, but we just burned through the book, and when we found ourselves at the end of the "curriculum" with half the sem left, we just started bull****ting. There'd always be one or two skipping. I taught a lesson on ethics to the class just cause I felt like it. We played Risk for four classes in a row.

As far as I can tell though, my problem with ToK is how the pure elements of the theory is bogged down by the terminology. I suspect Philosophy is very much the same, but it's too bad that these subjects are very much dependent on elitist knowledge rather than eloquence and intelligence.

[Robb]

worst subject ever secondly only to Spanish (and that's because i can't speak Spanish)

requires the most effort and gives the most homework and only worth 1.5 points..

i call bull***t

[malkovic]

ToK is a bunch of BS. We have a considerably large IB class (36 students) and so the majority of our discussion consists of people who think they're smart parroting ideas straight out of the ToK text. There are about five people who actually know what they're talking about.