How important is spelling/grammar?

[TurtleR]

I've had this discussion before so I thought I'd post it here.

So far, I've argued for both sides of the debate because my opinions changed, but right now I'm somewhere in the middle.

How important is grammar/spelling? I mean, of course I'm not asking if it's important in an IA or an essay or anything else thats academic or professional. However, I'm talking in terms of everyday use.

I know some people who wouldnt care if i type lik dis, because they still get my message....or maybe they even type like that themselves. But I do know some people who would instantly call out the fact that I missed an apostrophe in the "that's" above.

Personally, I think I'm in the middle somewhere because sometimes, there are things that DO annoy me. I mean, if we're on a forum or on MSN or facebook, I don't care if you miss apostrophes or mess up words, or evn type lik dis. But it does get a bit annoying when people add things that arent necessary, or omit things that are, to the point where I have to THINK about the message that they're trying to convey.

However, I also think it gets a bit annoying when people call you out on EVERYTHING, whether it be a missed apostrophe, a commonly mispelt word, or even the absence of a period (one of my pet peeves? When you argue with someone, and they try to rebut your arguement by trying to claim it has no value simply because of a spelling/grammar error, or even because of a typo).

I can be a bit flexible with some people who DO try to correct you. I mean, personally, if I know someone who makes frequent spelling errors, I point them out because they actually don't KNOW how to spell it, and it might help them later (such as the different between affect/effect)..or maybe because I'm bored and I feel like I have nothing else to say

So, thoughts? Does it matter as long as the person gets the message across? ALSO, does this have anything to do with the "intelligence" or a person? Do they deserve to be called "dumb" or "stupid" because of it sometimes?

[CkyBlue]

I find that IB kids, esp. the girls tend to use proper grammar when communicating on social networks, besides their elongated lols, awws, or lmaos, etc.

With your thoughts on the matter, I completely agree with you.

I wouldn't say spelling, grammar is that important as long as its easy if the message gets through to you properly. But as for the very conception of what is understandable and what isn't, that itself is subjective. So what is deemed understandable? That is set by our own social environment, who you talk to, and what influences your speech. I do agree with you that if it gets to the point when you can't understand it, it's really a bother. And there is no need to point out obvious errors, if they do not disrupt the conversation among people.

There isn't anything wrong being stuck in the middle, since there are really no absolutes in life. Sometimes (most of the time) being in the middle is the way to go, given all the outside variables; nothing is for sure.

[dessskris]

"please fell free to add and change anything that sounds weird. and also think of the props..."

- my friend, emailing the script for our english role play

I think it's annoying when one makes a spelling error and the wrongly spelt word is another word which has a different meaning.

e.g. than&then, fell&feel

it also annoys me when people mix up the "a", "e" and "i"

e.g. definately, seperate, grammer(!)

I'm okay with wrong spellings as long as I can comprehend the meaning but sometimes it's annoying! urgh

but grammatical errors... hmmm. I think they're not too bad as long as the meaning doesn't totally change but sometimes it confuses me and I can't grasp what they're trying to say.

and please note that some users here are/were taking english B... you guys know what to expect. I sometimes don't know where to place a comma, I often can't decide which tense to use (present or past??!), and often I want to express something but can't find the right word for it.....

I think word choice can be a bigger deal than the spelling or grammar.

---

I can be a bit flexible with some people who DO try to correct you. I mean, personally, if I know someone who makes frequent spelling errors, I point them out because they actually don't KNOW how to spell it, and it might help them later (such as the different between affect/effect)..or maybe because I'm bored and I feel like I have nothing else to say

[Arrowhead]

I always appreciate someone who is well spoken. There's a certain charm to be appreciated in someone with impeccable diction. Grammar, and when it comes to the written word, punctuation and the ability to spell accurately, are very important to me. I can never really tell why, but when a friend or somebody I know uses text speech even when messaging me or something along those lines, I cringe, I actually cringe because it annoys me to that extent.

Sure it's better if the text speech is comprehensible, I can understand when a friend texts me with, "OMFG! Im lyk totly xited n sykd 2 c u!!!!!!" For those of you more flabbergasted souls out there, I believe the translation to that darling missive is, "Oh My Fu*cking God! I'm like totally excited and psyched to see you." Unfortunately, I receive texts along these levels of...contractions...quite a few times. It is depressing sometimes. But I've found that more people use text speech in India than other places I've lived in. When I see something like that it tears and sears a part of me deep inside my conscience and I am left with a headache capable of luring me to strangle said person who texted me as such. It's rather disconcerting after a point.

Sure I won't flinch (as violently) if someone missed an apostrophe (its instead of it's) or misspelled a commonly misspelled word (...can't think of any, but it should be a really, really common mistake). But in general, there's a certain pride and mark in being able to write and speak with a degree of skill, especially if the one in question has been exposed to a more than adequate education and knows the correct way of doing things but chooses not to. Those are the kind of people who truly piss me off. They can help themselves but choose not to.

[haley.the.great]

I have some particular grammar ocd.

im totally fine if sumone talks lik this on fb or skype or watevr

im nt ttly fyn @ all if dey strt toking lyk dis (lyk meh lil bro

^AND LEAVING OUT THE SECOND PARENTHESIS...

I hate when people TRY to use proper grammar, but they make mistakes. For example:

My chalkboard needs repair because it's holes are from the 1960's, but at the repair shop, their always busy!

Those little apostrophe mistakes are like ughh..especially when the writer is actually trying to pose like he is grammatically correct. And their/they're/there/you're/your/etc. = CRINGE.

I don't mind ellipses and I really don't expect the other person to have perfect grammar so I don't correct it unless he is as picky as I am and we've been over it before. lol. But yeah, I usually type like I speak while conversing so I'll throw in some "likes" and "yeahs" which are never proper, but I don't think they inhibit the reader and also seem to make my writing more interesting rather than dull. when im on a messenger, i'll type like this, not bothering with apostrophes or caps unless they really make a difference. like, i will cap SAT but not i. and i will apostrophe we're, we'll, etc because without it, the meaning changes. Idk, I don't think it's that important as long as the intended message is receivable, but I do have a few pet peeves that instantly lower my respect for the person haha. So, I think it's always helpful to know proper grammar, but in improper situations, it isn't necessary to use.

Edited August 28, 2011 by haley.the.great

[ShootingStars]

I've had this discussion before so I thought I'd post it here.

So far, I've argued for both sides of the debate because my opinions changed, but right now I'm somewhere in the middle.

How important is grammar/spelling? I mean, of course I'm not asking if it's important in an IA or an essay or anything else thats academic or professional. However, I'm talking in terms of everyday use.

I know some people who wouldnt care if i type lik dis, because they still get my message....or maybe they even type like that themselves. But I do know some people who would instantly call out the fact that I missed an apostrophe in the "that's" above.

Personally, I think I'm in the middle somewhere because sometimes, there are things that DO annoy me. I mean, if we're on a forum or on MSN or facebook, I don't care if you miss apostrophes or mess up words, or evn type lik dis. But it does get a bit annoying when people add things that arent necessary, or omit things that are, to the point where I have to THINK about the message that they're trying to convey.

However, I also think it gets a bit annoying when people call you out on EVERYTHING, whether it be a missed apostrophe, a commonly mispelt word, or even the absence of a period (one of my pet peeves? When you argue with someone, and they try to rebut your arguement by trying to claim it has no value simply because of a spelling/grammar error, or even because of a typo).

I can be a bit flexible with some people who DO try to correct you. I mean, personally, if I know someone who makes frequent spelling errors, I point them out because they actually don't KNOW how to spell it, and it might help them later (such as the different between affect/effect)..or maybe because I'm bored and I feel like I have nothing else to say

So, thoughts? Does it matter as long as the person gets the message across? ALSO, does this have anything to do with the "intelligence" or a person? Do they deserve to be called "dumb" or "stupid" because of it sometimes?

No they're not dumb or stupid! They just have a particular way of writing. They may just be trying to act cool, but hopefully grow out of that!

And as for people who call you out on everything, there's a word for that: "Grammar Nazi". Anytime someone corrects you and you find it annoying, just comment "Grammar Nazi". It made me laugh quite a bit when I first saw it.

Oh and as for the grammar question? Proper grammar and spelling is just basic etiquette. It looks so much more better (especially years later when you look at what you wrote in "see friendship" or whatever.) and it is easier to understand. And if u tlk lyk dis u jst look like an idiot. You're not one, but you just do when everyone else is spelling their words out correctly. And it's good practice too. One of my friends wrote "cuz" in an English paper once.

I do sometimes when I'm excitedddd, stress out the last letters of people's namesss and last words of sentences. Because it's fun and I'm showing I'm happy/excited/hyper/whatever. That's where I think the !!!!!! comes from as well. And I like inserting lots of smileys because it's who I am.

You have to give people a little "freedom of speech" here, right?

[dessskris]

just want to add a bit: most people who tYp LyK diZz think it's cool, it's trending or it makes them look cuter; that's why they type like gangsta.

[Expired Manwich of Doom]

LOL if only Colin could respond to this...

On a social network or IM, I don't mind minor orthographic errors, like lack of capitalization, and some punctuation, and basic shorthands.

E.g i usually type like this on facebook, b/c its faster and most ppl dont mind.

But once people start making EXCESSIVE mistakes on purpose, it starts to tick me off. Like if they use excessive caps, exclamation marks, question marks... it just makes them seem immature or like they're spazzing.

Also, I find it annoying when girls type words longer than necessary, only to make it appear stylish; it's not.

E.g itzz meh, yo bestiezz brotha

Edited August 28, 2011 by Expired Manwich of Doom

[Sandwich]

The way I see it, all the ways in which you communicate represent something about you. You yourself are not there to represent yourself in person, so the only way to get across the kind of person you are, your level of intelligence, education etc. is via text. Ultimately the way you express yourself in type is more or less the ultimate expression of your internal intelligent personality.

So I think it says a lot about you as an internal person, if not about the way you usually are in person externally. People with a fluent sense of internal thought would, in my opinion, find it absolutely impossible to type in chatspeak. People who don't think in a way which is fluid with the way they express themselves are more likely to use chatspeak. They're not necessarily more stupid or terrible people - some of my better friends use chatspeak - but in my opinion it indicates an inability to have thought and language as one and the same. If you need to translate thought into words, then there is room for chatspeak because if you're already performing a translation operation you may as well make the intermediate stage a little easier. Whereas somebody whose thoughts are already perfectly formed as words doesn't have an intermediate stage at all.

Given that the internet and this type of communication is ALL about yourself as an internal person, I think that it does come across as being stupid and idiotic online even if you're not so in person. At least, sub-consciously I find myself dismissing people who use chatspeak as being quite mentally slow - even if (in the case of people I know) I then correct myself to what I know of them in person.

Basically I don't see how anybody with a coherent link between their thoughts and language could possibly find using chatspeak anything other than a time waste. The single exception is people who find it extremely hard to type for whatever reason (e.g. old style phone texting which took aaaages so actually it was quicker to translate from words into chatspeak than anything else...). People who have English as a foreign language to them are allowed to make spelling errors, but no foreigner would mistakenly use chatspeak as spelling, so I don't think that's a decent excuse for anything.

[CkyBlue]

So I think it says a lot about you as an internal person, if not about the way you usually are in person externally. People with a fluent sense of internal thought would, in my opinion, find it absolutely impossible to type in chatspeak. People who don't think in a way which is fluid with the way they express themselves are more likely to use chatspeak. They're not necessarily more stupid or terrible people - some of my better friends use chatspeak - but in my opinion it indicates an inability to have thought and language as one and the same. If you need to translate thought into words, then there is room for chatspeak because if you're already performing a translation operation you may as well make the intermediate stage a little easier. Whereas somebody whose thoughts are already perfectly formed as words doesn't have an intermediate stage at all.

Given that the internet and this type of communication is ALL about yourself as an internal person, I think that it does come across as being stupid and idiotic online even if you're not so in person. At least, sub-consciously I find myself dismissing people who use chatspeak as being quite mentally slow - even if (in the case of people I know) I then correct myself to what I know of them in person.

But don't you still think there are people, normal, regular and intelligent people who know talking to friends is a bit more informal and can use that to their advantage to communicate something a bit more slang-ish, since it's faster and more efficient? This intermediate stage may not be needed given that their thoughts (or lazyness) may make them miss an apostrophe, or lack of capitalization right? I get what you mean if people type something like:

i w0nT $Tart ta|_|<inG lik dis ... but compared to the below

i wont start talking like this <<< I don't see an intermediate stage there, but that's how I usually communicate on a informal social network. Perhaps I don't understand your argument?

I won't jump to conclusions as the person being slow if they used the second form of speaking. There are also other variables to think about right? It's not just about how they communicate

Edited September 1, 2011 by Pickles

[TurtleR]

I have a new question related to this, what if you sacrifice spelling/grammar for convenience?

For example...these annoying character limits when posting on someones wall. It would make more sense to say u instead of you, or even leave out vowels and stuff, wouldnt it?

[CkyBlue]

On MSN, I write in whatever way I feel comfortable. IMO writing for convenience as long as sender and receiver maintain a clear communication is a good thing. You save lots of time, not like how I am right now, or later in my arguments when I am frequently backspacing to add my punctuation, apostrophes and correct my spelling.

But as for word count, that could be counter-argued by simply making another post. Ideally I'd like the notion that everyone just write as they please, given that communication stays clear, but that is pretty hard, as people have their own standards as to what is clear.

[TurtleR]

But as for word count, that could be counter-argued by simply making another post. Ideally I'd like the notion that everyone just write as they please, given that communication stays clear, but that is pretty hard, as people have their own standards as to what is clear.

What if it's something such as texting, where you don't want to spend extra money for an extra text? Or avoiding giving someone multiple notifications because they can get annoying?

[CkyBlue]

But as for word count, that could be counter-argued by simply making another post. Ideally I'd like the notion that everyone just write as they please, given that communication stays clear, but that is pretty hard, as people have their own standards as to what is clear.

What if it's something such as texting, where you don't want to spend extra money for an extra text? Or avoiding giving someone multiple notifications because they can get annoying?

Then I would say yes, quite frankly I would support any no matter the informalities, as long as clear communication is established. IDEALLY.

But if you make the mistake as to not actually communicate clearly, which is common in life actually, you may need to repeat or reword what you're trying to say; the risk of that is always there, and its quite plausible that you would have to write/pay even more if we're talking about a phone.

[TurtleR]

But as for word count, that could be counter-argued by simply making another post. Ideally I'd like the notion that everyone just write as they please, given that communication stays clear, but that is pretty hard, as people have their own standards as to what is clear.

What if it's something such as texting, where you don't want to spend extra money for an extra text? Or avoiding giving someone multiple notifications because they can get annoying?

Then I would say yes, quite frankly I would support any no matter the informalities, as long as clear communication is established. IDEALLY.

But if you make the mistake as to not actually communicate clearly, which is common in life actually, you may need to repeat or reword what you're trying to say; the risk of that is always there, and its quite plausible that you would have to write/pay even more if we're talking about a phone.

Well then, if communication is ideal, wouldn't you agree with me that spelling/grammar does not necessarily indicate intelligence if we're talking about an informal conversation? You can have perfect spelling/grammar, yet still look stupid for being too wordy, making a message too complex, or simply not being clear, right?

[CkyBlue]

But as for word count, that could be counter-argued by simply making another post. Ideally I'd like the notion that everyone just write as they please, given that communication stays clear, but that is pretty hard, as people have their own standards as to what is clear.

What if it's something such as texting, where you don't want to spend extra money for an extra text? Or avoiding giving someone multiple notifications because they can get annoying?

Then I would say yes, quite frankly I would support any no matter the informalities, as long as clear communication is established. IDEALLY.

But if you make the mistake as to not actually communicate clearly, which is common in life actually, you may need to repeat or reword what you're trying to say; the risk of that is always there, and its quite plausible that you would have to write/pay even more if we're talking about a phone.

Well then, if communication is ideal, wouldn't you agree with me that spelling/grammar does not necessarily indicate intelligence if we're talking about an informal conversation? You can have perfect spelling/grammar, yet still look stupid for being too wordy, making a message too complex, or simply not being clear, right?

Yes lollll I would agree with you completely there. The concept of their argument could simply be confusing, despite perfect grammar and spelling, etc. etc. But keep in mind communication is not always ideal, and that is what matters in the outside world. Remember how our english teacher told us we can never truly express how we feel through just words? Limitations man.

[TurtleR]

But as for word count, that could be counter-argued by simply making another post. Ideally I'd like the notion that everyone just write as they please, given that communication stays clear, but that is pretty hard, as people have their own standards as to what is clear.

What if it's something such as texting, where you don't want to spend extra money for an extra text? Or avoiding giving someone multiple notifications because they can get annoying?

Then I would say yes, quite frankly I would support any no matter the informalities, as long as clear communication is established. IDEALLY.

But if you make the mistake as to not actually communicate clearly, which is common in life actually, you may need to repeat or reword what you're trying to say; the risk of that is always there, and its quite plausible that you would have to write/pay even more if we're talking about a phone.

Well then, if communication is ideal, wouldn't you agree with me that spelling/grammar does not necessarily indicate intelligence if we're talking about an informal conversation? You can have perfect spelling/grammar, yet still look stupid for being too wordy, making a message too complex, or simply not being clear, right?

Yes lollll I would agree with you completely there. The concept of their argument could simply be confusing, despite perfect grammar and spelling, etc. etc. But keep in mind communication is not always ideal, and that is what matters in the outside world. Remember how our english teacher told us we can never truly express how we feel through just words? Limitations man.

^^^Getting a bit off topic, I'd prefer to deal more with spelling/grammar rather than question communication...anybody else have opinions theyd like to add?

[MR.AHM]

It is important but we regularly do mistakes. I do some myself. I always get confused between "their" and "there". And they always point it out that I am stupid because I can't spell well. However, spelling mistakes doesn't affect your intellectual thinking so if you makes mistakes there is no problem with it at all.

And if you are not at grammar or spelling, it doesn't mean that you are smart or intelligent. For example, How did Islamic nation starts from one person to billion now. It started with one person whose the prophet Mohammed. However, he didn't know how to read or write. but that didn't stop from becoming one of the most famous and important people in history.

Jackie Chan, Lots of people like, but his English is not very good, but we like his movies and still watch\

So I believe if the message is conveyed, there is no problem with slight grammatical or spelling mistakes

[khalid]

It is very important in the IB and university life. Specially in English A1 or A2 or B, one of the main criteria;s is spelling, grammar and sentence construction. Also, in your other subjects, if you misspell a word and the examiners don't understand it, you wont get the marks for it.

[nametaken]

I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The

phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid. Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde

Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the

olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit

pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a

porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by

istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? Yaeh and I awlyas thought

slpeling was ipmorantt.

My point being that to effectively communicate, you don't need to neccesarily be good at spelling. The basis of language is communication and the above paragraph demonstrates that even though the spelling is inaccurate, you can still understand my message.

However, spelling/grammar is an important tool in today's world because it is a sign of how educated you are, and education is always a core part of doing well in life.

Edited November 12, 2011 by nametaken