Nov11/May12 #7 "The vocabulary we have does more than communicate our knowledge; it shapes what we can know."

[ajbiki2012]

for language i chose to compare the inuits vocabulary and ours for the word snow

You might want to double-check before you make an urban legend an argument for your essay.

[Justina]

Hey, i'm writing my tok essay on this topic, and I have just received my first draft with notes of what are weak and strong points of my ideas. First half of my essay where I wrote about natural science area of knowledge and vocabulary as being capable of shaping knowledge, later a bit refuting this claim by introducing sense perception and illustrations in biology, seemed to be ok for my advisor. However, in the second part, i relied on Saphir - Whorf hypothesis and discussed various languages as in the are of human science. This was somehow wrong, as it showed no relation to human sciences. My questions are: how to demonstrate the analysis of area of knowledge? Are exaples and insights enough, or something else is needed? Then, if languages are not part of human sciences (it is a way of knowing, perhaps), then what other area of knowledge could I take in order to show that vocabulary shapes knowledge, but only to some extent? I think languages would be the best to compare that due to difference in perceptions of the world, different vocabularies developed and some people cannot understand everything that comes from person with distinctive vocabulary, thus, knowledge acquisition is shaped. Perhaps art area of knowledge cou;d be used? To state that vocabulary is not used, but it conveys the meaning (using balley or paintings)? I am really lost. If someone could help, I would be indeed very very grateful.

[Guest Animistic Anaemia]

Language is a way of knowing... maybe what you meant was Literature? and I've advised most people to take natural sciences and mathematics.

Natural sciences has a proper vocabulary - the scientific one. This vocab is almost always based on a dead language (latin or ancient greek) for particular reasons which allow a better communication between the scientific community. So, that shapes what you know because there maybe some cases where you have no word in latin nor in greek to describe a particular phenomena, etc.

As for Maths, there are two main ideologies within Maths - the language-based maths and the other one I forgot but even so, the vocabulary and the symbols shape what you know as they are fixed and determined, you can no longer think that a "+" is actually a minus symbol if you get what I mean

Art isn't a good AOK for this title nor are human sciences except for psychology. Like, you restrict yourself to the names of the diseases that a book with all mental illnesses has but the human being is so complex that new stuff can arise

Oh and no, insight and stuff is not enough. It's clearly stated in the criteria that the knower must reflect upon their personal experiences. This means that when you state something, you should include some kind of personal experience that might be related. For example, "I was in Kazakhstan and while I was in the local market speaking in English with a vegetable seller he used a word to describe a vegetable that I had no idea of what it was"... that kind of things lol

was it helpful?

[Justina]

Well, you seem to have an opinion that shaping of knowledge is not having an alternative to change a word, for exaple, if we stick to "+" is a plus in maths and there are no other interpretations, did I get that correctly? And vocabulary in maths.. Can symbols count as vocabulary?

And yeah, I was thinking about maths, but could not find out whether in this area of knowledge language shapes what people can know or not Thank you for help with choosing another AoK

[Chris Lin]

I am doing my essay on this question too!

[Loeszie.]

I'm doing this title too, and I have to hand in my final version tomorrow.

Still quite a bit over the word limit though, so trying to cut it down now...

[YanceyPants]

Hi,

I plan on writing my TOK essay on this topic. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for specific example about how language shapes what we know? I was thinking cross-culturally and thought about exaiming different dying languages like Eyak langauge. Please give me some responses.

[alicat]

Does anyone have any examples for how this topic relates to ethics?

[Guest Animistic Anaemia]

Well, you seem to have an opinion that shaping of knowledge is not having an alternative to change a word, for exaple, if we stick to "+" is a plus in maths and there are no other interpretations, did I get that correctly? And vocabulary in maths.. Can symbols count as vocabulary?

And yeah, I was thinking about maths, but could not find out whether in this area of knowledge language shapes what people can know or not Thank you for help with choosing another AoK

Yeah, I think they can because it's part of the language of mathematics, you know? But you should ask that to your teacher even though I'm pretty sure that yes

I'm sorry but I didn't really understand what you meant with your conclusion from my reply lol What I was trying to say is that vocabulary can naturally shape our knowledge as you will not have any other "pathway" you can go through in search of knowledge. was this too ToK-ish??

Oh it's one of the most discussed things and there is evidence that yes. Once you learn a language you'll notice that if the language is changed (for example, in Portugal they just recently changed the way words are written) elder people or those who have always written with the old form, will not be willing to change. that's what happens basically

Your welcome! and sorry for my late response, I don't get notifications haha

[Guest Animistic Anaemia]

Hi,

I plan on writing my TOK essay on this topic. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for specific example about how language shapes what we know? I was thinking cross-culturally and thought about exaiming different dying languages like Eyak langauge. Please give me some responses.

I think it's pretty explicit that language is a way of knowing and not an AOK, so unless you're exploring it in that way, you're doing a wrong approach on your essay. But an example would obviously be on how the meaning of a determined word changes throughout time and so, your reasoning also changes accordingly which therefore shapes your knowledge

Edited December 6, 2011 by Animistic Anaemia

[Justina]

Well, you seem to have an opinion that shaping of knowledge is not having an alternative to change a word, for exaple, if we stick to "+" is a plus in maths and there are no other interpretations, did I get that correctly? And vocabulary in maths.. Can symbols count as vocabulary?

And yeah, I was thinking about maths, but could not find out whether in this area of knowledge language shapes what people can know or not Thank you for help with choosing another AoK

Yeah, I think they can because it's part of the language of mathematics, you know? But you should ask that to your teacher even though I'm pretty sure that yes

I'm sorry but I didn't really understand what you meant with your conclusion from my reply lol What I was trying to say is that vocabulary can naturally shape our knowledge as you will not have any other "pathway" you can go through in search of knowledge. was this too ToK-ish??

Oh it's one of the most discussed things and there is evidence that yes. Once you learn a language you'll notice that if the language is changed (for example, in Portugal they just recently changed the way words are written) elder people or those who have always written with the old form, will not be willing to change. that's what happens basically

Your welcome! and sorry for my late response, I don't get notifications haha

What if I would write about mathematics area of knowledge, stating that almost every object or action in maths have their own word processed definitions and meanings and thee definitions are not to be interpreted for you cannot call point of inflexion to be centre of a circle, because points of inflexion are points on a function and circle is not a function. Thus, vocabulary usage in mathematics shape what we can know because by sticking to precise definitions, mathematicians have to act according to those definitions and can acquire only that knowledge that definitions of rules allow them to do. I would present some limitations of these claims as well. But as I'm not a huge ToK fan, I am definatelly not sure whether such thinking is correct or not Please, help me (Somehow I feel like I ask too much, sorry:))

[Ahmmanji]

I found out the History is a very useful AOK, it shows the vocab shape what we can know

[Guest Animistic Anaemia]

Well, you seem to have an opinion that shaping of knowledge is not having an alternative to change a word, for exaple, if we stick to "+" is a plus in maths and there are no other interpretations, did I get that correctly? And vocabulary in maths.. Can symbols count as vocabulary?

And yeah, I was thinking about maths, but could not find out whether in this area of knowledge language shapes what people can know or not Thank you for help with choosing another AoK

Yeah, I think they can because it's part of the language of mathematics, you know? But you should ask that to your teacher even though I'm pretty sure that yes

I'm sorry but I didn't really understand what you meant with your conclusion from my reply lol What I was trying to say is that vocabulary can naturally shape our knowledge as you will not have any other "pathway" you can go through in search of knowledge. was this too ToK-ish??

Oh it's one of the most discussed things and there is evidence that yes. Once you learn a language you'll notice that if the language is changed (for example, in Portugal they just recently changed the way words are written) elder people or those who have always written with the old form, will not be willing to change. that's what happens basically

Your welcome! and sorry for my late response, I don't get notifications haha

What if I would write about mathematics area of knowledge, stating that almost every object or action in maths have their own word processed definitions and meanings and thee definitions are not to be interpreted for you cannot call point of inflexion to be centre of a circle, because points of inflexion are points on a function and circle is not a function. Thus, vocabulary usage in mathematics shape what we can know because by sticking to precise definitions, mathematicians have to act according to those definitions and can acquire only that knowledge that definitions of rules allow them to do. I would present some limitations of these claims as well. But as I'm not a huge ToK fan, I am definatelly not sure whether such thinking is correct or not Please, help me (Somehow I feel like I ask too much, sorry:))

Yes, that's exactly what I said but with another example in Mathematics and implicitly of course ahhahaha and the circle can be a function, you know? I guess you're an SL student (so am I) but there is a circle function

Well, I like TOK, just hate classes and my teacher and no, you're not asking too much lol it's good to ask and we're here on IBS for that ;D

[SimoneEJJ]

how would you define 'vocabulary'?

I found out that vocabulary doesn't only refer to words that we know but also things like facial expression and body language. how do you say that when giving a proper definition, then?

It is the body of words an individual 'posseses'. So, from that the question arrises? Does one person who speak three different languages see the world in a different way than someone who only speaks English?

Edited December 14, 2011 by SimoneEJJ

[Anne000]

Arr this essay question is killing me.

it's confusing that the question is asking about vocabs instead of language

well vocab and language 'kind of' share some similarities but they are actually different

and i keep crossing the line to the area of 'language'

[amacklin3]

Hi, Well I'm doing my essay on this too and I have hit a problem... I wrote this essay already but it doesn't stick to the question... Anyway as examples of AoK I am using History, art and natural sciences. For my art point I have been told to look at the technical vocabulary needed when criticising art and whether it limits our knowledge or helps develop it. So I was wondering if there was anybody who could help me with that... If yes I would be really really grateful

[Kettlehead]

How can this claim be related to ethics and the human sciences?

[akblover]

A possible counter claim that I can think of is sarcasm. Of course, the words are important when when using language as a way of knowing, but the tone with which the words are said is equally important.

Two scenarios:

1: A student writes an essay and the teacher pats her on the back and says, "Very nice!"

2: A jealous classmate looks at the essay, gives a dirty look to the girl, makes a face and says "Very nice!"

In both cases, the 'vocabulary' (as in the words said) are the same. Yet, one is genuine and one is mocking. As a result, although vocabulary IS important, we need to combine language with other ways of knowing to actually acquire knowledge.

What do you think?

That's a great counterclaim but how to counter that counter claim though? I thought about it and wrote it in my essay and then i noticed that I can't think about a way to say that it's wrong...

[Sandwich]

A possible counter claim that I can think of is sarcasm. Of course, the words are important when when using language as a way of knowing, but the tone with which the words are said is equally important.

Two scenarios:

1: A student writes an essay and the teacher pats her on the back and says, "Very nice!"

2: A jealous classmate looks at the essay, gives a dirty look to the girl, makes a face and says "Very nice!"

In both cases, the 'vocabulary' (as in the words said) are the same. Yet, one is genuine and one is mocking. As a result, although vocabulary IS important, we need to combine language with other ways of knowing to actually acquire knowledge.

What do you think?

That's a great counterclaim but how to counter that counter claim though? I thought about it and wrote it in my essay and then i noticed that I can't think about a way to say that it's wrong...

Well it's not really very hard, just find an example of when tone doesn't matter. BOOM, sorted. Also, rather than talking about tone I'd go a lot more TOK and talk about how we combine Language and Emotion (i.e. interpretation of tone) together to understand things. The whole point of it is to identify the ways of knowing, so you've got to make sure that when you discuss them you actually prove that you're capable of identifying that that is what you're talking about!

Be sure to actually make sure this point is discussing the topic of the essay. How does or doesn't this demonstrate that vocabulary shapes what we can know?

[JonathanSpencer]

This has got to be the most popular topic. I want to mention other ways of knowing too. Check out this Facebook site for good discussion. And good luck.