Chances of getting into Kings College London/Birmingham for LAW?

[rashi]

I want to study law with business studies in Kings College London or Birmingham. I don't mind leeds, or bristol, or any other equivalent university in the uk, but something that is known.

My IB subjects are

Geography HL

Hindi HL

Business Management HL

Math Studies SL

English Language and Literature SL

Biology SL

Apart from this, i have extra curricula's like, I'm learning how to play piano. Im in yoga club, and i have my own student initiative project of which i am the founder along with a friend, that focuses mainly on welfare of the poor and the underprivileged and also the environment. We come up with big projects for the school and the orphanages.my school also provides us with their own diploma which is certified in the US and Canada only.

I'm aiming for a 36 this semester end. Also, i will be doing an internship at a good law firm over the summer.

Will this get me into kings or any other mentioned colleges? If not, what am i supposed to do to get my chances higher?

[cjy]

Firstly, Bristol is MUCH better than Birmingham.

Your EC wont really matter for university tbh, and you'll need 37-39 for good unis for law.

KCL you'll need 35 but 766 at HL.

[emmapatregnani]

The minimum requirement for kings college london is 35 so you should be fine. However for law what they want is subjects that develop your argumentative skills and that challenge you intellectually. So maybe it's better if you take english HL but if you can't it won't be a tragedy. For the rest apart from maths studies your subjects aren't bad. To be fair there are people who have a more desirable combination of subjects for law which means that if you get an offer they'll probably be a little more demanding. I didn't mean to scare you off you should definitely go for it because the national admission test for law is probably the most important thing after getting the minimum requirements (766 at HL+35 total points).

Good luck

Edited February 28, 2014 by emmapatregnani

[Arrowhead]

Hello!

Firstly, it's always nice to see a fellow Indian wanting to study Law in the UK, there are so few of us!

Secondly, always remember that for UK universities, your extracurriculars do not matter. They primarily look at your academic profile (ICSE/CBSE/IGCSE results + IB predicted scores). Then they look at any relevant work experience and/or extracurriculars you might be doing. Therefore, working at a law firm would loom attractive on your law application (but keep in mind that much more than 50% of all international students applying for Law have had some or lots of legal work experience. That alone will not set you apart). As far as extracurriculars are concerned, concentrate on activities that will help you develop or demonstrate convincingly skills that are transferrable to a law degree, for example: the ability to reason; to create cogent arguments to a proposition; to analyse complex texts; voracious reading habits; etc.

Thirdly, I run a thread on IBS for prospective law students here. Have a look and feel free to ask any questions you might have moving forward about studying law or even practising it.

Fourthly, I would strongly suggest swapping English L&L from SL to HL and dropping Hindi HL down to SL. For UK Law applications, HL English, though never explicitly asked for, is generally a boon. Also, does Geography HL have a huge essay component to it? I believe it does, so it should be fine.

Lastly, you mentioned KCL. While KCL has reduced its Law course IB requirements to 35 points (with at least a 766 at HL), the KCL prospectus "strongly recommends" prospective IB applicants to have at least one HL subject that is 'essay-based'. While KCL does not specify essay-based in English, I think that is fairly obvious. In your case, Geography HL would count as one essay-based subject. But I know of a lot of people who applied to KCL this cycle for Law having only one essay-based subject, and they've, by and large, been unsuccessful. Whereas, students with similar profiles, but with two or more essay-based subjects, have been much, much more successful. This is, of course, anecdotal evidence, but I think it's better to be safe than sorry, and you should strongly consider bringing up English L&L to HL and dropping Hindi or B&M to SL.

[Arrowhead]

Firstly, Bristol is MUCH better than Birmingham.

Unreliable ranking tables aside...

From a purely recruitment perspective, I read a paper released by the law society that broke down statistically recruitment in law from a bunch of universities. I'll try and post that here if I can find it. But yeah, statistically, as of the 2012 recruitment season at least, B'ham (and even Manchester) is actually much more represented among top law firms than Bristol, or even Warwick, actually.

Facts aside, which unis would you rank as the top 10 or 15 for Law (in order)?

Edited February 28, 2014 by Arrowhead

[rashi]

Hello!

Firstly, it's always nice to see a fellow Indian wanting to study Law in the UK, there are so few of us!

Secondly, always remember that for UK universities, your extracurriculars do not matter. They primarily look at your academic profile (ICSE/CBSE/IGCSE results + IB predicted scores). Then they look at any relevant work experience and/or extracurriculars you might be doing. Therefore, working at a law firm would loom attractive on your law application (but keep in mind that much more than 50% of all international students applying for Law have had some or lots of legal work experience. That alone will not set you apart). As far as extracurriculars are concerned, concentrate on activities that will help you develop or demonstrate convincingly skills that are transferrable to a law degree, for example: the ability to reason; to create cogent arguments to a proposition; to analyse complex texts; voracious reading habits; etc.

Thirdly, I run a thread on IBS for prospective law students here. Have a look and feel free to ask any questions you might have moving forward about studying law or even practising it.

Fourthly, I would strongly suggest swapping English L&L from SL to HL and dropping Hindi HL down to SL. For UK Law applications, HL English, though never explicitly asked for, is generally a boon. Also, does Geography HL have a huge essay component to it? I believe it does, so it should be fine.

Lastly, you mentioned KCL. While KCL has reduced its Law course IB requirements to 35 points (with at least a 766 at HL), the KCL prospectus "strongly recommends" prospective IB applicants to have at least one HL subject that is 'essay-based'. While KCL does not specify essay-based in English, I think that is fairly obvious. In your case, Geography HL would count as one essay-based subject. But I know of a lot of people who applied to KCL this cycle for Law having only one essay-based subject, and they've, by and large, been unsuccessful. Whereas, students with similar profiles, but with two or more essay-based subjects, have been much, much more successful. This is, of course, anecdotal evidence, but I think it's better to be safe than sorry, and you should strongly consider bringing up English L&L to HL and dropping Hindi or B&M to SL.

Hi!

I don't think my IB Coordinator will let me move to English HL since they have already started their HL Syllabus and half of the second semester has gone already. I spoke to the career counsellor at my school and she said that it will be fine if i don't take English HL because its a requirement only if i wanted to do Law at Edinburgh, but she mentioned that i NEED to get 766 at HL, or else i won't get in. Also, I wanted to do Law with business studies, since i want to do business along with law. I hear KCL has a good law with business studies program, will it still be difficult for me to get in? what will i need to do in order to go there? any suggestions?

Thanks. i really appreciate your help

[Sandwich]

she said that it will be fine if i don't take English HL because its a requirement only if i wanted to do Law at Edinburgh, but she mentioned that i NEED to get 766 at HL, or else i won't get in.

The point is not so much whether something is required or not but whether it's going to help you. Law has competitive entry so you need to be a competitive candidate. It's not about fulfilling requirements (basically everybody that applies meets the requirements, and if not they get rejected immediately) so much as impressing with your application. If you want to maximise your chances of being accepted, having more than one essay subject at HL is a good idea. There will be plenty of candidates with two or three essay subjects at HL, and plenty of them who'll have 766 if not 777. If you can write a good essay in one subject usually you can write an essay in the others. If you want to compete with these people and stand a really good chance, then perhaps it's worth fighting a little harder to move to HL and doing a bit of extra work.

With the best will in the world, most school careers people have only a vague grip on what they're talking about. That's sort-of why they became careers advisors and when you consider how little connection they have with admissions and actual experience of who DOES get in, in my opinion if you're going to believe anyone, believe people who've just been through it and can anecdotally tell you from their friends and personal experiences.

[Arrowhead]

Hi!

I don't think my IB Coordinator will let me move to English HL since they have already started their HL Syllabus and half of the second semester has gone already. I spoke to the career counsellor at my school and she said that it will be fine if i don't take English HL because its a requirement only if i wanted to do Law at Edinburgh, but she mentioned that i NEED to get 766 at HL, or else i won't get in. Also, I wanted to do Law with business studies, since i want to do business along with law. I hear KCL has a good law with business studies program, will it still be difficult for me to get in? what will i need to do in order to go there? any suggestions?

Thanks. i really appreciate your help

KCL has a great Business & Entrepreneurship Department and even more vaunted Law Department which has seen a fantastic upgrade in the last few years with its expansion to the Dickson Poon School of Law. Getting onto their Business & Law programme would be great.

But can I ask if you've done some research into the course itself? Double major courses in UK universities are nothing like their counterparts in the US. Doing a Business & Law degree, you will have maybe one or no options, and will only end up doing the required Qualifying Law Degree modules alongside compulsory basic Business degree modules. So if you're prepared for that and you know what you're signing up for, then that's great! I just hope you're making an informed decision and not doing Business and Law because you think it will keep your "options open".

As for your chances of getting into KCL, it depends on many factors outside of just your IB predicted scores:

- Your 10th Board results

- The strength of your Personal Statement

- The strength of your teacher's recommendation

- Your LNAT results

The point is not so much whether something is required or not but whether it's going to help you. Law has competitive entry so you need to be a competitive candidate. It's not about fulfilling requirements (basically everybody that applies meets the requirements, and if not they get rejected immediately) so much as impressing with your application. If you want to maximise your chances of being accepted, having more than one essay subject at HL is a good idea. There will be plenty of candidates with two or three essay subjects at HL, and plenty of them who'll have 766 if not 777. If you can write a good essay in one subject usually you can write an essay in the others. If you want to compete with these people and stand a really good chance, then perhaps it's worth fighting a little harder to move to HL and doing a bit of extra work.

With the best will in the world, most school careers people have only a vague grip on what they're talking about. That's sort-of why they became careers advisors and when you consider how little connection they have with admissions and actual experience of who DOES get in, in my opinion if you're going to believe anyone, believe people who've just been through it and can anecdotally tell you from their friends and personal experiences.

Thank you, Alice! I could not have put it more eloquently if I tried. OP, as you can see from Sandwich's response above, it's not just about meeting the minimum condition. Every year, thousands of students from the world-over apply for Law to top universities like KCL. Most of them don't get in despite meeting all the minimum requirements. To transcend above the competition and secure a place - especially when pitted against fellow international applicants among whom the competition is much, much more intense - you can't just have an application that just meets the cut, you need to be impressive.

The way to being impressive is demonstrating through your application, clearly and effectively, how committed you are to this particular course and why you're very suited to it above all the others. When it comes to Law and Law-affiliated courses, one of the key ways of doing this is by having multiple essay-based subjects. Yes, some students get in with a single essay-based subject, or even none sometimes, but generally speaking, the norm among Law students is to have more than one essay-based subject at HL.

Edited March 1, 2014 by Arrowhead

[iamyourmum]

Firstly, Bristol is MUCH better than Birmingham.

Unreliable ranking tables aside...

From a purely recruitment perspective, I read a paper released by the law society that broke down statistically recruitment in law from a bunch of universities. I'll try and post that here if I can find it. But yeah, statistically, as of the 2012 recruitment season at least, B'ham (and even Manchester) is actually much more represented among top law firms than Bristol, or even Warwick, actually.

Facts aside, which unis would you rank as the top 10 or 15 for Law (in order)?

Are you referring to this paper (regarding the recruitment of law students)

http://d1d1tdqerevjwu.cloudfront.net/resources/2013/What_is_a_good_university.pdf