USA vs Australia Undergraduate Studies

[Vvi]

Yes, Bachelor's degrees transfer between countries. When you choose a course, be sure to pick only BA or BSc courses that are full-time; other courses like Dip DipHE are not as recognized and may not transfer between countries.

You can also choose to study Pyschology alone, or combined with another subject such as languages, anthropology, history, etc. The full range is shown on UCAS and those courses are called "joint honours" and give you a double Bachelors. Some Psychology courses are BA (Bachelor of the Arts) and some are BSc (Bachelor of Sciences). Some universities offer both, and you have to decide which is better for you: BA courses have less mathematics than BSc courses and usually have less hours spent in lectures, but have more essays/coursework outside the class.

[emmak]

I really appreciate the info on BA and BSc courses... I've been wondering what the difference is! The amount of time for both degrees would be the same, then, I take it? I'm sure I'll find more info on the university pages once I start looking... after the Economics Commentary, World literature outline, and miscellaneous homework! Let's see if I survive this year and next! Do British universities require different types of applications? I know everything goes through UCAS, but is the application and all the info that's sent out the same? All I know is that in America, some colleges require different papers or applications so that you can't use the Common App for everything.

[Vvi]

Yes, BA and BSc courses usually take the same amount of time to complete. On the UCAS pages with courses, they use abbreviations to give information about them on the right side (e.g. 3FT BAHon means 3 years full-time BA with honours).

In the UK, you write one personal statement which gets sent to all the universities. You don't have to write separate essays for each one (unless you get interviewed at Cambridge/Oxford, where you may have to send in previous work and sit an exam there). The personal statement can be a max of 4000 characters, and if you apply to different courses at different universities (e.g. Law at one and French at another), then you have to write a little bit about each in your PS and make it general and applicable to all the courses (which is quite hard if the courses are very different). You can find examples of personal statements by Googleing. However, UCAS is considering changing the system so that students can write different personal statements for different universities, although I'm not sure if that will happen in time for the 2010 applicants.

[Abu]

I won't write a WL essay like Vvi does

Aboo, wanna share your reasoning for choosing NZ? I'd be interested to know what drew you there.

I've lived in a few countries including the UK so I did not want to go there again. The only city that interested me in Australia was Sydney and that was a bit expensive and I didn't care much for the population of Sydney neither the student population of the university. The US never interested me, and neither did Canada because even Canada had a 4 year degree that came out with just a standard bachelors. And add to that, whenever you send an email or call universities in America or Canada it's like reaching an automated answer machine. Blew my mind trying to contact one of them. That left me with NZ, and the bad parts of it were that it seemed quiet and boring when I was here last in 07. But when I'm here now, there are far better points. It's not as rundown as the UK and the homes are way better. There's great scenery everywhere, people are friendly and while I can't explore Europe but I can do the Pacific Islands. Oh and I can do a double degree here and try and squeeze the double degree into 4 years. It's a different place but I like it enough to be here. Oh and I already had my offer from the University of Auckland (top 60 worldwide or something) since the day I got my results last year. All I had to do was just turn up.

I really appreciate the info on BA and BSc courses... I've been wondering what the difference is! The amount of time for both degrees would be the same, then, I take it? I'm sure I'll find more info on the university pages once I start looking... after the Economics Commentary, World literature outline, and miscellaneous homework! Let's see if I survive this year and next! Do British universities require different types of applications? I know everything goes through UCAS, but is the application and all the info that's sent out the same? All I know is that in America, some colleges require different papers or applications so that you can't use the Common App for everything.

All things go through UCAS, no supplemental forms unless you apply to Cambridge. Although some courses like Medicine require additional tests and interview. Would be much easier if you told us what you want to study.

Do remember that if you're graduating in 2010, you will need to apply through UCAS this September. And if you are going to Australia/NZ, chances are that you will have to go to university in Feb/March 2011 since the academic year starts there in January as opposed to the normal September.

And this has just struck me, since you already have a High School Diploma (or I think you do, correct me if I'm wrong), you won't have to complete the IB if you want to go to Australia / NZ. You can just take the SATs and that should be enough for you to apply for the next academic year.

From the University of Auckland Website:

USA High School Diploma PLUS acceptable SAT 1 Scores (varies according to proposed course of study, but a minimum of at least 1100 combined Math and Verbal).

Links: http://www.auckland.ac.nz/uoa/home/for/international-students/is-entry-requirements/is-degree-specific-entry-requirements#s3c7

http://www.auckland.ac.nz/uoa/home/for/international-students/is-entry-requirements/is-minimum-overseas-entry-requirements

[Vvi]

She wants to study psychology, you need to read those WL-length posts of ours more carefully, Mr. Moderator

You could just apply everywhere (UK, Australia and NZ) and then decide later between them. My classmate applied to both the UK and the US, so if she doens't get the 42 she needs for Cambridge then she will go to the US. Helps to have a back up plan.

[emmak]

And this has just struck me, since you already have a High School Diploma (or I think you do, correct me if I'm wrong), you won't have to complete the IB if you want to go to Australia / NZ. You can just take the SATs and that should be enough for you to apply for the next academic year.

Oh, that kills me! Believe me, I do know that my American degree will suffice for many different places. BUT... I'm already here, more than halfway through IB, and I want it. I want it so bad... for personal satisfaction mostly! And looking at, say, the application requirements for Oxford, I could never get in just with what I have now. I have the ACT score that's required, but the AP tests? Nope. I know I can pull off a 38(ish!)... so I want to go for it! I've been talking to a few people from my school who are planning on studying in the UK, and their main reason is because it's cheap. I have all these dreams, and I am very conscious of their cost... but I did realize that it will take a LOT of money. Although Australia and NZ are great choices, and may be the best choices for me... I seriously don't think I can afford it! So since I took some time for a reality check, things seem to be clearer now. If there was a way that I could study in Finland, I would. But... 5000 euros per year won't KILL my budget. Hopefully!

So if I have to apply in September to the UK unis, then I would send my predicted grades from this spring's mock exams, correct? Well... this spring I got 37, which isn't enough. In the fall I got 39, so they would average nicely. Would they consider my application? Can I put in a side note that I'll do better in the fall? And I do plan on getting extra points from my EE and TOK, so how do I send that info? I'm pretty sure my teachers won't look at the EE or TOK before it's time to apply, so how's all of this work? Can I convince my teachers to round my grade up if I did better the last time? Ugh...

I was on Oxford's website today, and the requirement for the IB is at least 38 points including core points. What does this mean? My teacher was a bit confused too... but we assumed that the 38 points can be made up of 35 points plus a bonus 3 from EE and TOK. Did I understand it right?! That the 38-40 that they require is made up of the "core" or class points, w/e, plus bonus points if you get them? Maybe I'm just reading into it too much... but I definitely didn't understand it at first or second glance!

What about scholarships? I would hate to look up every university individually, so if I could get a general picture by country, that would be great. Britan, Australia, NZ? Do they offer any type of aid? Trying to reduce my costs as much as possible right from the get-go. I'm pretty sure that Oxford won't hand me bunches of money for a 40 IB... like the US most likely would.

Thanks again... I'll let you know that I'm getting very excited about this... going to uni and moving to a new place. I'm also nervous... applying in like 4 months?! omg.

[Abu]

She wants to study psychology, you need to read those WL-length posts of ours more carefully, Mr. Moderator

Yeah yeah accuse me of not reading fully, in these days and times, skim reading is the way to go

And this has just struck me, since you already have a High School Diploma (or I think you do, correct me if I'm wrong), you won't have to complete the IB if you want to go to Australia / NZ. You can just take the SATs and that should be enough for you to apply for the next academic year.

Oh, that kills me! Believe me, I do know that my American degree will suffice for many different places. BUT... I'm already here, more than halfway through IB, and I want it. I want it so bad... for personal satisfaction mostly! And looking at, say, the application requirements for Oxford, I could never get in just with what I have now. I have the ACT score that's required, but the AP tests? Nope. I know I can pull off a 38(ish!)... so I want to go for it! I've been talking to a few people from my school who are planning on studying in the UK, and their main reason is because it's cheap. I have all these dreams, and I am very conscious of their cost... but I did realize that it will take a LOT of money. Although Australia and NZ are great choices, and may be the best choices for me... I seriously don't think I can afford it! So since I took some time for a reality check, things seem to be clearer now. If there was a way that I could study in Finland, I would. But... 5000 euros per year won't KILL my budget. Hopefully!

So if I have to apply in September to the UK unis, then I would send my predicted grades from this spring's mock exams, correct? Well... this spring I got 37, which isn't enough. In the fall I got 39, so they would average nicely. Would they consider my application? Can I put in a side note that I'll do better in the fall? And I do plan on getting extra points from my EE and TOK, so how do I send that info? I'm pretty sure my teachers won't look at the EE or TOK before it's time to apply, so how's all of this work? Can I convince my teachers to round my grade up if I did better the last time? Ugh...

I was on Oxford's website today, and the requirement for the IB is at least 38 points including core points. What does this mean? My teacher was a bit confused too... but we assumed that the 38 points can be made up of 35 points plus a bonus 3 from EE and TOK. Did I understand it right?! That the 38-40 that they require is made up of the "core" or class points, w/e, plus bonus points if you get them? Maybe I'm just reading into it too much... but I definitely didn't understand it at first or second glance!

What about scholarships? I would hate to look up every university individually, so if I could get a general picture by country, that would be great. Britan, Australia, NZ? Do they offer any type of aid? Trying to reduce my costs as much as possible right from the get-go. I'm pretty sure that Oxford won't hand me bunches of money for a 40 IB... like the US most likely would.

Thanks again... I'll let you know that I'm getting very excited about this... going to uni and moving to a new place. I'm also nervous... applying in like 4 months?! omg.

Just make sure that you'll be getting home fees Bit of a rude awakening to expect £3.5K and actually get £12K.

The person who will be writing your recommendation will also be putting in your predicted grades. Sweet talk your teachers into giving you a 40+, that is if your teachers are the type that can be persuaded.

Core Points means that the 38 should be the total without any bonus points from the TOK/EE.

No, no other country will give you scholarships/financial aid unless you're exceptional. Aren't you happy that you're even paying home fees for the UK that you're now looking for aid As Vvi said somewhere above, and since the both of you are Finnish, you can get a loan off your banks or the Finnish Gov to support your study in the UK if you run short.

And don't be afraid of applying, I've done it twice. Not daunting at all, just need a killer PS which you can flour up with all your experiences of America and dual culture, and psychological differences. Something that makes them go wow, and bam! there's your interview.

[emmak]

I'm pretty sure they're looking for that BAM! on the interviews! I'll try to contact someone from an admissions office in the UK to clear up the whole 3 year EU thing before I start applying... that could definitely get messy if I'm not careful! I saw that there was a link floating around here somewhere for the top ranked undergrad psychology programs in the UK... off to find that...

[Vvi]

There aren't really any scholarships in the UK for EU students. They have a few for international students (and by a few, I literally mean 2 or 3 per university). There are some later on for 2nd and 3rd year students. UK students can get government grants, but that doesn't apply to EU students.

Howver, KELA gives you money as a student, even if you complete your entire degree abroad. This is the site for students, it's all in Finnish http://www.kela.fi/in/internet/suomi.nsf/NET/111202135541RS?OpenDocument . Basically, you get 508 euros altogether per month from the student grant (opintoraha) and the grant for rent (asumislisä). That's assuming you get given the full amount, because it differs according to whether you are renting a house, etc. Those, you don't have to pay back. Then you can borrow a maximum of 440 euros a month from a bank of your choice, which give you a total of 948 euros a month. You have to pay tax on the opintoraha but not on the asumislisä, and the loan only has to be paid back after about double the number of years it took to complete your degree (so if you studied for 3 years, you would start paying it back after 6 years, of course it depends on what your bank has negotiated with you). You spend about 9 months in university, so you would receive 8532 euros for the year. Which is pretty good, especially since 4572 euros of that don't have to be paid back You can always get a job to get yourself some extra money, and I'm sure your parents will contribute a little bit.

You have to fill in forms for the student loan and grants that you can print off online, but you don't fill them in until after you get your IB results and know for sure where you are going for university. They then send you back a decision, and the money is paid to your bank account (I don't know how often it's paid, every month or every 3 months).

[emmak]

The KELA info is really good for me, since I have no experience with KELA, and even though my parents know more about it, they've never applied to university. How early should I start finding all of these papers and such? You said to fill them out after I get my IB results, but are there other papers I need to fill in around the time that I apply? I guess I'll find more info on the uni pages, so I guess I just answered my own question.

Although my school's counselor tells me I should have no problem getting the home student status because I'm a citizen of a EU country... the stuff I find online seems to be very clear that if you haven't lived inside the EU for 3 years, you're considered an international student, and I didn't seem to find any info on loopholes. Exactly what kind of documentation do I provide? And the colleges usually have a fee status sheet that you have to fill out, which asks whether or not you've lived in the EU for 3 years. Choices: yes or no. So, I would put no. I think my question is, where/when/to whom do I submit the papers/proof that will get me the home student status? And what exactly do I have to provide? I know there's a lot of questions, and I've contacted a few unis with my questions too... so hopefully I'll hear back from them soon.

[deissi]

http://www.kela.fi/in/internet/suomi.nsf/NET/111202132443RS?OpenDocument

Read that with thought, and you'll get far with the opintotuki process. You'll only need to apply about a month before you go to university. You'll be sure to get home status, don't worry about it.

[Vvi]

The deal with the university fee status is the "ordinarily resident" clause. That means you have to have been resident in the EEA (European Economic Area, different from EU as it includes Switzerland and Liechtenstein) for 3 years before university, and the purpose of that must not have been solely for receiving a full-time education. Even if you did move back to Finland in order to go to school there, don't say that. You have relatives there and a house probably, so you can say you were returning home after a short absence.

On the fee status forms, you do have to tick the box which says you haven't lived there for 3 years, but there is usually another section where you can provide more information and explain the reasons why you haven't been in the EU. If they don't, attach a separate Word document explaining your case. You need to make it sound like your dad had no choice but to work abroad. You will need to have a copy of his work contract/a statement from his employer explaining why you were absent, and if you can, send in tax forms showing that your parents paid income tax to the Finnish authorities even while you were in America. If you own a house, send a copy of the house ownership and tell them that the house remained in your ownership even while you were out of the country. That shows that you have ties to your home country.

Ask your parents if they were still covered by KELA while you were in America, or if you dropped from the system and had to pay your own medical bills. If you were still covered by the system, then you can write that down.

Edited May 19, 2009 by Vvi

[emmak]

Thanks for the help, Vvi, but after consulting with the parents, this won't work. While we were abroad, we were completely cut off from Finland. We didn't pay taxes, have a home, and my dad was even employed by the American branch of the Finnish firm. So sadly, I can't have the home student fee status right now.

SO... I thought I was done with my questions... but there's a couple more. Right now... my options are still Britain, Australia, and maybe Canada. I don't really want to pay the international fees in Britain, so to go there, I would take a year off after I graduate and then start in the fall of 2011. For Australia, there are no fee "problems", so I would start there in the fall of 2010 if I choose to go there. (same for Canada) Could I get some opinions on which option would be better in this situation?! Oh, the opportunity costs... how to weigh them?!?!?!?! I REALLY don't want to take a year off, but if I can pay around 3225 pounds a year after that... it might be worth it. I really want to go to Australia... but it costs a lot. But then I'm thinking if the low fees in Britain plus the high costs of living would be equal to living in Australia anyways? I'm keeping plane tickets in mind also... Britain's a heck of a lot closer to Finland than Australia!

So, opinions?! I think I'm too ambitious for my own good sometimes, but I'm NOT willing to compromise my dreams! Now I just have to choose which hemisphere of the earth will be the best option for me.

[Abu]

Tuition in Australia: AUD14000 per year (University of Newcastle)

Flights to and from Austraia, twice a year, AUD3000

Living costs: AUD8000 (University of the Sunshine Coast)

So that, added together is AUD25000 ~ GBP12335 at today's rates on google.

And the UK, where tuition fees £3500 and the living costs are roughly £6000 and travelling costs are roughly £500. So that's in total £10000

So all in all that's a difference of about 2500 quid, and depends on how you interpret it. I consider that a small difference if you want to go to a new place that's different.

I don't know why you're thinking Canada since that has nearly all the bad options, degree wise that the US has, except it's Canada.

Honestly, if I were you I'd screw IB and head to Australia since you can get in based on your high school diploma. Why continue with something when you're not even going to need it 10 years down. But that's your option so I'll shut up now

[Ruan Chun Xian]

For Australia, do you really want to go to university in 2010? You finish IB in May 2010 right? Semester 2 of Australian universities start in July (literally 2 weeks after your exams results ~around 20 Jul) that means you get 2 months break between IB and uni but those 2 months will be pretty hectic with prepartions. Universities may require IB results before they give you an offer anyway, so the 2 weeks you have between exam results and start of semester will not be enough for you to prepare - especially when you need an offer to get visa. If you are going to Australia, I really would suggest taking half a year off as a breather, and start in Semester 1 2011.

Btw I would check with the uni whether they have Sem2 intake. Most universities and most programs should have Sem2 intake, but some programs don't.

Edit: If you're applying with your American high school diploma grades then I suppose you might still make it for Sem2 2010 but then why bother with IB...

Edit:

Tuition in Australia: AUD14000 per year (University of Newcastle)

That's it?!?! Bloody hell I know UNSW was expensive but...

[emmak]

UGH... should I really just quit the IB? Thanks for those cost figures, Aboo, it helps to "try" to look at things objectively! I hate feeling like I've wasted a year in the IB if I won't use it or need it. *cries* I didn't think about the semesters and how they're different in Australia... in that case I guess it would be good to take the breather and apply in 2011. So then I would be going to uni in 2011 anyways, whether I choose Australia (Jan 2011 I think), or Britain (September 2011). So do I have any definitive votes yet?! Britain/Australia?! Oh man... I really don't want to feel like a "quitter" if I choose not to finish the IB. Can someone just tell me what to do? It would be so much easier than choosing by myself, and then I could blame you if it all goes to hell. Nah, I'll live with my decisions ONCE I make them!

[Abu]

You're only a quitter if you can't take the pressure or don't have finished school yet. You can take the pressure of IB (well you have until now) and you've already finished high school so you're not a drop out.

If you just finish IB now, you can go to uni next year. I'd find it excruciating to wait to go to university when I know I can but I'm held back by pursuing a qualification which I don't need.

Britain and Australia are completely different. Unless you go to Sydney which just feels like East London. Different cultures, different universities and generally different really. It's your choice! Personally, I wouldn't go to the UK because I'm not a fan of it anymore after living there and I love living in new countries.

What you can even do is go to a university in Australia or something and go for an exchange The world is your oyster!

[lewisgirl93]

i live on the gold coast in queensland

and im currently trying to figure out the same thing whether to stay at home or study in the states

i know that undergraduate degrees in australia are mostly cheaper

also as you would be an international student there are many international houses & scholarships

many universitys here in australia have 'sister' schools in the united states or at least have partnerships of some form

for example bond university on the gold coast has many affililations with universitys in the states

so the credits can be transferred easily

however you are best to go to the individual schools websites and see who they are affiliated with in the united states

[emmak]

I agree with all of you. But I also feel like it's not really a race to see how fast I can finish school. *shrug* And not that it's that important to me, but my grandparents really want me to graduate in Finland. They don't really understand how I've already done it in America, and like they have the tradition of the graduation cap, we also have a similar hat that graduates wear. They only understand the hat, because that means you've graduated. I kinda feel like I would be letting them down if I quit. They also don't understand travel (them having never left Finland), and why I want to see the world. But enough personal stuff!

So as of the moment we'll say that I'm staying in IB. Are there then votes for Britain or Australia? Do they frown upon a gap year in either country? I REALLY REALLY REALLY hate the idea of a gap year or year and a half... argharghargh. Anyone have gap year experiences? Tomorrow I plan on talking to my IB Coordinator to see his views on the subject, and I'm pretty sure he knows more about university and everything. So confused... so many decisions... running out of time.

[Abu]

I'm on a gap year, a lot of people do it. Since you will be going on a gap year, make sure you have something constructive to do in the year.

And since you are on a gap year, and are able to get into a great British university, I'd just go to the UK. And you can do that, just apply on the 1st of September, only costs £17 for 5 universities, and apply to Australia too, and you can find out by the end of December. If you get into any high ranking universities, just go to the UK, you can get an honours degree within 3 years and you're nearer to home. But, if you're going to the likes of Sheffield or Manchester, then just go to Australia as they both compare.