Language B Oral: What is a good score?

[Hyperbole]

We got back our scores from the mock orals in French today, and I'm having mixed feelings about mine. I got 24/30, and while I realise it's good for someone who doesn't like to speak and dreaded this for weeks, I'm really not used to getting scores below 25. So I was wondering what you guys think is a good score...

Thing is, these were mock orals but according to our teacher we're allowed to use them as the real ones if we're satisfied with the score, assuming we don't make another attempt. I asked my teacher if she thinks I could do better, and it sounded like she didn't expect me to get more than one or two points above what I already have. To be honest, I don't think that would be worth my time, especially considering that the new oral would be happening right when I'm having English A2 and Swedish A1 orals, ToK deadline, all sorts of IAs, and revision for / actual mock exams.

I'm just afraid it'll cost me my seven. I'm pretty confident that I can get well above fifty on the interactive oral (I'm taking French HL and going on to study French at university next year), and probably 27+ on the essay, so I was thinking that I might be able to balance out the two points from the oral. But still!

Any thoughts?

[IBStuck]

i was in a similar boat as you. i had a good score but thought that i might be able to get a point or two higher if i re-did it. i talked to my spansih teacher and she told me that i would only get one or 2 points higher and it would bring up my score form a 6 to a 7 so she didn't think it was worth my time and all the worry that i do before orals, so i actaully didn't re-do it.

if you think that those one ro two points are going to make a big difference then i say go for it, but if you don't hijk that it is going to be worth your time, don't do it. i don't regret at all not re-doing my oral.

[Vvi]

Could someone explain to me how the orals for Language B go? Hyperbole and IBStuck seem to have done them already, so maybe you could? Our French teacher hasn't done much to help us, although we haven't started preparing yet.

I wanted to do something on Francophone culture in Africa or in the Caribbean. Obviously I'll narrow down my topic later, but it's just a general direction. What were your topics?

Does the oral go something like this:

-I have to speak for 5 mins on the topic

-The teacher asks me questions about the topic

-The teacher then asks me random questions on any topic from global warming to the French judicial system

The last part seems very random to me, I know I have to revise the vocab we've done over the past 2 years but it seems like a mean trick to catch students off-guard.

Did you have to speak non-stop on the topics? I know you are allowed to have bullet points on a paper with you to help you, but you can't write an essay and read it out. And memorizing an entire 5 minute speech isn't recommended either.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Vvi

[IBStuck]

Could someone explain to me how the orals for Language B go? Hyperbole and IBStuck seem to have done them already, so maybe you could? Our French teacher hasn't done much to help us, although we haven't started preparing yet.

I wanted to do something on Francophone culture in Africa or in the Caribbean. Obviously I'll narrow down my topic later, but it's just a general direction. What were your topics?

Does the oral go something like this:

-I have to speak for 5 mins on the topic

-The teacher asks me questions about the topic

-The teacher then asks me random questions on any topic from global warming to the French judicial system

The last part seems very random to me, I know I have to revise the vocab we've done over the past 2 years but it seems like a mean trick to catch students off-guard.

Did you have to speak non-stop on the topics? I know you are allowed to have bullet points on a paper with you to help you, but you can't write an essay and read it out. And memorizing an entire 5 minute speech isn't recommended either.

what i did was i memorized about 8 mins worth of a speech on my topic (it has to relate to the country/ies where the language is spoken, so for me i took spanish and i did art as my topic so i talked about on work by dali and i talked about his life as well). the reason i did 8 mins was because when i get nervous i talk really fast and then i woulf forget some of the information so it ended up being 5 mins, and if you go over they jsut cut you off anyway.

then my teacher asked my questions for about 5 mins, and i would respond. it is supposed to seem conversational, so it is ok to ask to have them repeat or rephrase questions (and if you do that it doesn't hurt your score. i did that for almost every question and still got a 6).

what id di to prepare was i memorized that first part of me talking, but it didn't sound memorized. and then i practiced vocab about art since that was my topic.

you can't read the essay and just read it, and i don't think that you can have notes, but for me i had to bring in a copy of the painting that i was talking about.

[Hyperbole]

Your three points are correct, however you're supposed to talk no more than four minutes. (At least our teacher strongly recommended us to keep it short.)

The last part really isn't that bad; if you're comfortable in your language, it shouldn't be a problem. Also, the point isn't to catch you off guard but to let you show your skills. I was very nervous about that at first, but then when I got into the discussion it felt almost like in class, except I didn't have to fight others for the time to speak, and I had the full attention of my interlocutor. (Unusual!)

You don't have to speak without pausing; indeed it's better to take a deep breath and find the words occasionally. You aren't expected to speak as fast as a native, so don't worry about speeding things up.

As for the topic, choose something with a problem at the centre. I talked about Prostitution in France, and covered the laws and some historical points, and today when I got some feedback I found out that I had lost a point because I hadn't taken my own presentation that step further and problematised the issue. That's basically the only point my teacher thought I could gain if I were to do it again... So: choose narrowly, and choose a question to answer or a problem to discuss. The latter is especially important for HL students, since we need to be able to discuss abstract and advanced things, and to argue a bit more sophisticatedly than the SLs.

Oh, by the way, you're allowed ten lines with notes. They should preferably just be key words like dates or statistics. It's definitely not advisable to write a whole speech and memorise it, though; I don't think most people are able to make it sound "authentic" if they do that.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Hyperbole

[Vvi]

Your three points are correct, however you're supposed to talk no more than four minutes. (At least our teacher strongly recommended us to keep it short.)

The last part really isn't that bad; if you're comfortable in your language, it shouldn't be a problem. Also, the point isn't to catch you off guard but to let you show your skills. I was very nervous about that at first, but then when I got into the discussion it felt almost like in class, except I didn't have to fight others for the time to speak, and I had the full attention of my interlocutor. (Unusual!)

You don't have to speak without pausing; indeed it's better to take a deep breath and find the words occasionally. You aren't expected to speak as fast as a native, so don't worry about speeding things up.

As for the topic, choose something with a problem at the centre. I talked about Prostitution in France, and covered the laws and some historical points, and today when I got some feedback I found out that I had lost a point because I hadn't taken my own presentation that step further and problematised the issue. That's basically the only point my teacher thought I could gain if I were to do it again... So: choose narrowly, and choose a question to answer or a problem to discuss. The latter is especially important for HL students, since we need to be able to discuss abstract and advanced things, and to argue a bit more sophisticatedly than the SLs.

Oh, by the way, you're allowed ten lines with notes. They should preferably just be key words like dates or statistics. It's definitely not advisable to write a whole speech and memorise it, though; I don't think most people are able to make it sound "authentic" if they do that.

I'm doing HL too, I need a minimum of 5 in French since I want to study it at university like you.

I've been reading "Le Petit Prince" to try get me used to reading more and also using more complex sentence structures. I hate all the words like "en" and especially the masculine/feminine words. Neither Finnish nor English has gender nouns, so it's irritating to have to think about a word before you say it. I also hate the deeply philosophical discussions the French and Italians seem to love on law/ethics. Real world issues for me

When you say "problematised" the issue, what do you mean? Discussed it's implications on society and how to solve it?

[Hyperbole]

Yeah, I'm reading as much as possible too. What do you think of Le Petit Prince? We read it about this time last year, and I absolutely adored it! And yeah, feminine and masculine constantly throws me off too. I got 6 on the language criterion on one of the essays which had the best content last year just because I kept failing to use the correct gender and therefore didn't fulfill the thing where it says "mostly correct basic structures" or something like that.

Um... yeah, I guess? Rather than just describing, I should have gone into how I feel about it and how I think it should be and things like that. I often happen to be too descriptive, I'm afraid...

[Capa]

If this was a mock and you were able to get a 24/30 when you are normally used to getting at least 25, you should not have too big problems with gettting at least 25 on your real exam. Just study even more and aim for the highest grade - that helps!

[Vvi]

Yeah, I'm reading as much as possible too. What do you think of Le Petit Prince? We read it about this time last year, and I absolutely adored it! And yeah, feminine and masculine constantly throws me off too. I got 6 on the language criterion on one of the essays which had the best content last year just because I kept failing to use the correct gender and therefore didn't fulfill the thing where it says "mostly correct basic structures" or something like that.

Um... yeah, I guess? Rather than just describing, I should have gone into how I feel about it and how I think it should be and things like that. I often happen to be too descriptive, I'm afraid...

I don't really like Le Petit Prince, I've read it in English before but I don't generally like books with a philosophical tone. I was going to read Harry Potter instead, but it's too long for me to finish with all the IA's I have left to do.

Btw, our French teacher told our class today to revise all the vocab on environment, nuclear pollution, and similar topics since this year happens to be Earth Year or some thing (don't know if it's only in France or worldwide). So apparently environmental stuff should be coming up on the final exams. Beautifully long words like "l'effet de serre" and "la couche d'zone". I hate discussing global warming, it's overdone. Such an IB thing, to make us "aware" and "well-rounded" students.

[moneyfaery]

I don't really like Le Petit Prince, I've read it in English before but I don't generally like books with a philosophical tone. I was going to read Harry Potter instead, but it's too long for me to finish with all the IA's I have left to do.

Btw, our French teacher told our class today to revise all the vocab on environment, nuclear pollution, and similar topics since this year happens to be Earth Year or some thing (don't know if it's only in France or worldwide). So apparently environmental stuff should be coming up on the final exams. Beautifully long words like "l'effet de serre" and "la couche d'zone". I hate discussing global warming, it's overdone. Such an IB thing, to make us "aware" and "well-rounded" students.

Harry Potter in French? Le Petit Prince has been an easy read so far. Some of the sentence structures really throw me off though... and I need to review my passé simple.

[Hyperbole]

You don't necessarily need to know the passé simple for IB French B, though. My teacher has only explained how it works and that people taking HL should know how it's formed and recognise it, but I don't think the SL people have worked with it at all. So don't worry too much about it, I guess.

[Vvi]

I took a French course during the summer where they taught use passe simple and conditionel passe. But it's true that you don't need them, passe simple is ridiculously stupid to form. Since the IB never asks you to write a story or anything where you'd use it in writing, you just need to recognize it. Which shouldn't be too hard, because it's probably going to be the word on the page that you have no idea what it means (if it's "fut" or something) and you're going to say "Why's there no verb in this sentence?"

Does anyone know if we have to know the subjonctif really well too for writing? Who actually says "Il faut que j'aille"? I said that this summer and I'm surprised the guy didn't burst out in laughter.

Edited February 12, 2009 by Vvi

[moneyfaery]

I can recognize passé simple... it's just that it's been a white so I don't remember what some of the words mean even if I recognize it. (Stuff like 'fut' are obvious... it's just the more obscure stuff)

I don't think we'd get anything 'formal' on the exam so passé simple shouldn't appear... just in case though.

Subjonctif? Is that for HLs because I don't remember learning that.

[Hyperbole]

Subjonctif is for everyone, and YES, it's used. All those expressions that take the subjonctif take them always, no matter what context they're being used in: you should definitely know how to use it and when to use it. Especially well at HL, but at SL too.

But you never use the passé simple orally. And is it that difficult to form, really? The irregular verbs are difficult in most conjugations, but the regular verbs all follow the same pattern, so the passé simple isn't more difficult than any other tense...

[moneyfaery]

It's not difficult. Rather simple really but requires some memorization. Subjonctif... hmm... okay, I'll get around to that.

[Vvi]

The passe simple is stupid when you compare it to other languages, I don't know of any others where you have a "historic past". When you tell a story in English, it's just "They went to the shop, and bought candy, after which they went back home". Why make it complicated? Even better would be scrapping the future tense altogether. In Finnish there's no future tense, you just use the present. As in, "I'm going to the shop" could mean now or in 10 years time.

I always get full marks on the reading comprehension, but it's the writing that brings me down. I suppose it's because I subconsciously translate from English into French, and then the sentence structure and word choice ends up weird. The worst is when you can't remember a word, and have to express it in several. Like "blind", and having to say "someone who can't see". Then the examiner knows you don't know the word, and marks you down. At least, that's what my teacher said.

I always resort to using expressions like "A mon Dieu!" or "C'est incroyable!" because they sound so French and take up word count Only in informal letters though, or diary entries. It sounds so dramatic and French. They're always saying stuff like "Non, c'est impossible!"

[Hyperbole]

Well, about the not-knowing-a-word thing, our teacher encourages us to always work around things like that. If we don't know the precise word, we should always try to explain around it; being able to do that will impress the examiner just as much as knowing the right word would have, and that way you don't have to change what you were trying to say just because there's a word you're unsure of. Good strategies are almost as important as a large vocabulary and good grammar!

I always feel so ridiculous writing letters or diary entries. =( I just can't get around the silliness of it! It doesn't feel serious enough... not for an exam, anyways? But word on the expressions! They're cute. "Ah bon !" is probably my favourite.

[Samra]

I always resort to using expressions like "A mon Dieu!" or "C'est incroyable!" because they sound so French and take up word count Only in informal letters though, or diary entries. It sounds so dramatic and French. They're always saying stuff like "Non, c'est impossible!"

Yes! They sound so french

24/30 sounds amazing to me :| I speak french with a strong American accent (ouch) and I'm dreading my oral. I'm around the highest in class (okay, out of like 6 kids - its a small class) but I would consider myself lucky to get above 20. Oral is going to pull down my entire grade. Any tips for how to kill the oral? I'm dreading Part III (the 'rapidfire' thing where they ask us questions on ANY french topic) because I really dont know how I could prepare for that...other than reading up vocab and txtbook..but that doesnt seem like much help.

[Sandwich]

I found the best way to prepare for the questions bit (I don't do French as my language, but same thing) is to look at all the topics and then formulate a series of points I might make in response... for example if it was about tobacco, you could talk about health risks, reasons why people become addicted, the way it is portrayed in the media, whether older or younger people smoke, how we ought to prevent people smoking (and who) etc. Then when you've thought of all concievable broad topics, you come up with a series of amazing (preferably subjunctive using) ways to start off opinions based on those topics, and try answering it, so you find out what vocab you don't know.

Then your best defence in the oral is offence!

Don't let them ask you questions if at all possible. That's where brainstorming topics comes in handy because you can just talk about EVERYTHING to do with tobacco without prompting and that way you come across very fluent because not only do you not stop talking, but your teacher doesn't have to keep helping you out. This way you'll hopefully only be asked 3-4 questions.

If you have a particular topic you want to move onto, fit it into what you're saying. So like if you want to move on from tobacco to drugs or something, start talking about addiction and being addicted to other things. Chances are your teacher will go OOOO a chance to move on! and that way you can mostly control the way your oral goes (:

That's what I try and do anyway. It's easier than having loads of Qs fired at you, in my opinion.

[IBStuck]

i thought that they had to ask you questions. the way that my teacher had it set up was so that she had finve minutes of asking questions while i had a 5 minute presentation.