definition of cold war

[Bee =3]

This was something that i came up with in our history class recently, when we were discussing vietnam.

what exactly is the definition of the cold war?

most people will unhesitatingly answer "period of tension between USA and USSR"

but if that's the case, to what extent can the vietnam war be considered part of the cold war?

cos how big was the soviet's role in the VW?

i'd like to hear your opinions supported by evidence and good justifications!

cheers,
B

[Ruan Chun Xian]

[quote]most people will unhesitatingly answer "period of tension between USA and USSR"[/quote]
This is a definition that will grant you zero mark in an exam.

The Cold War is not just a term exclusively assigned to this period in history. In fact, 'cold war' was first used as a term in in 14th century during some crusades or religious war or something like that.

The point is, the Cold war is not just a 'period of tension' - I mean, the world wars were periods of tension too, why weren't they cold war?

The main points you have to mention when defining cold war is:

- it's cold - not hot, i.e. [b][i]there is no actual fighting between the two countries (USA and USSR)[/i][/b]
- instead they engage in passive war - a war through other means such as supporting minor countries with their wars against the other side (that's where Korea, Vietnam comes in) [b][i]but they never get involved in actually fighting the other side. If the USA and USSR actually got involved in actively fighting each other, it would no longer be a Cold war![/i][/b] (Yes, USA fought in Vietnam, but it was against South Vietnamese soldiers not Russian!)
- they display their powers on alternative stages such as the arms race, the space race, nuclear treaties
- there is tension, yes, but both sides for various reasons were very reluctant to take the Cold war into a hot one - figure out the reasons! But clash of ideology sounds like a crucial reason!

In my Cold War notes (History notes thread), I had CW defined as:

Cold War: state of tension between states or countries, with great distrust and hostility, but does not resort to actual fighting.

Post-WWII, the Cold War was between the Communist Eastern bloc and Capitalist Western bloc. [i][b]Competition between the two blocs took the world to [u]brink of general war[/u][/b][/i], and dominated international relations 1945-89. (Some say the Cold War started 1917 with Russia turning Communist)

Key word: brink of war

[Bee =3]

[quote name='HMSChocolate' post='24101' date='Sep 14 2008, 12:47 AM']This is a definition that will grant you zero mark in an exam.

The Cold War is not just a term exclusively assigned to this period in history. In fact, 'cold war' was first used as a term in in 14th century during some crusades or religious war or something like that.

The point is, the Cold war is not just a 'period of tension' - I mean, the world wars were periods of tension too, why weren't they cold war?

The main points you have to mention when defining cold war is:

- it's cold - not hot, i.e. [b][i]there is no actual fighting between the two countries (USA and USSR)[/i][/b]
- instead they engage in passive war - a war through other means such as supporting minor countries with their wars against the other side (that's where Korea, Vietnam comes in) [b][i]but they never get involved in actually fighting the other side. If the USA and USSR actually got involved in actively fighting each other, it would no longer be a Cold war![/i][/b] (Yes, USA fought in Vietnam, but it was against South Vietnamese soldiers not Russian!)
- they display their powers on alternative stages such as the arms race, the space race, nuclear treaties
- there is tension, yes, but both sides for various reasons were very reluctant to take the Cold war into a hot one - figure out the reasons! But clash of ideology sounds like a crucial reason!

In my Cold War notes (History notes thread), I had CW defined as:

Cold War: state of tension between states or countries, with great distrust and hostility, but does not resort to actual fighting.

Post-WWII, the Cold War was between the Communist Eastern bloc and Capitalist Western bloc. [i][b]Competition between the two blocs took the world to [u]brink of general war[/u][/b][/i], and dominated international relations 1945-89. (Some say the Cold War started 1917 with Russia turning Communist)

Key word: brink of war[/quote]


so do you really think that there was no actual fighting between the USSR and USA? for e.g. the russians di actually fight for the north koreans, just as the usa fought for the south koreans..
of course it was not officially war between the two countries, because the two countries never declared war against each other..
but then, THAT would imply that the vietnam war didnt exist either.. cause the USA never officially declared war on the vietnamese!

so then, what IS war?

also, when the IB says THE cold war, it refers to one, not the crusades, etc etc.. so technically the term may be derived from prior occasions but The Cold War, with its capital letters and everything refers to ... um what, exactly? the period between 1945, after the WWII until? 1989 with the fall of the berlin wall? 1991 with the formation of CIS? never? judging from putin's actions that clearly reflect hostility between USSR towards USA?
similarly, the hostility between USA and USSR could also be said to have started in 1917 when the Americans helped the whites in the russian revolution..

ta, B

[Ruan Chun Xian]

[quote]so do you really think that there was no actual fighting between the USSR and USA? for e.g. the russians di actually fight for the north koreans, just as the usa fought for the south koreans..[/quote]
Correction, the USA provided troops for the[b] UN [/b]to fight in the Korean War. Moreover, Russia did not physically fight in the Korean war - the CHINESE did. Yes, perhaps there was Russian SUPPORT, but not physical fighting. (Acutally, in fact, Stalin said he would support North Korea but didn't do anything for them and just let China fight instead because China had more at stake and more risk of being invaded by MacArthur's troops than Russia.

During the Vietnam War, Russia didn't fight either, but they provided aid to Vietnam.

[quote]the period between 1945, after the WWII until? 1989 with the fall of the berlin wall? 1991 with the formation of CIS? never? judging from putin's actions that clearly reflect hostility between USSR towards USA?[/quote]
That is one issue that you will have to work out and is often a popular question (when the Cold War started) in exam.

For the purposes of IB, the Cold War is 1945 - 1990 with the collapse of the USSR. But historiagraphy argues it could have started in 1917 (no one is saying that it did, just that it could be understood to have started then). And I guess when we go far enough into the future, yes people will start debating when (whether) the Cold War really ended or just went to another thaw.

If you think about it neither could afford to fight each other physically because of fear of nuclear power. That's why the Cuban Missiles Crisis was such a ... well, crisis.

[eblake]

I think the key to whatever definition of CW you give, whether on a test or in a discussion, is to qualify it; either with a "the historian Anders Stephanson defines it as ..., therefore the CW started in 1945" or with a "however, according to David Hoffmann's definition, the CW could have started as early as 1918". It helps if you add the original definition of CW (someone mentioned this already), or give another example of what a CW can be (the strained Anglo-American relationship prior to WWII even).

The thing to keep in mind is that it's only 2008 and CW history is still fighting amongst itselves, so whatever definition you give is just as valid as (almost) any other. Don't think of it as a definition, think of it as a 'detailed description of the perspective of a well-known historian with justification' and throw in whatever is unique to you. IT'S NOT A DEFINITION. history is not definitive and if your teacher doesn't give you full marks, argue the philosophy of history as a discipline with him or her - they can't say you're wrong..



[quote name='bee21192' post='24069' date='Sep 13 2008, 11:59 PM']This was something that i came up with in our history class recently, when we were discussing vietnam.

what exactly is the definition of the cold war?

most people will unhesitatingly answer "period of tension between USA and USSR"

but if that's the case, to what extent can the vietnam war be considered part of the cold war?

cos how big was the soviet's role in the VW?

i'd like to hear your opinions supported by evidence and good justifications!

cheers,
B[/quote]