Is it possible to change classes at the end of grade 11?

[insomniac writer]

Hey everyone

I was wondering if it's possible to change classes at the end of the first year of IB. I take English A Language and Literature HL at the request of my parents, but I'm really struggling with the teacher. My school made it possible to change classes at the beginning of the year, but my parents assured me that it would get better, but I was still doubting it. Now at the end of the year of grade 11, I've come to the conclusion that it just won't work out the way my parents assured me it would.

Do you think it's possible to change classes?

[Guest Positron]

If you manage to convince your school, yes. As far as the IB is concerned you don't even exist yet (your school registers you around half-way through IB2) so it is wholly an internal matter, and theoretically you could change every single subject as long as your school lets you to.

However, do keep in mind that your school probably wont allow you to do this, and even if they did, it doesn't mean you should. It all comes down to the particulars of your situation. Are you planning to drop English to SL, and bumping up one of your SLs up to HL, or are you planning to drop English L&L altogether? Which subject would you take in its stead?

In any case, when you're making your decision what you should consider is the marginal benefit of changing classes. Sure there might be some "harm undone" by leaving that class, but let me assure you that starting a new class one year late will be much, much worse than taking a class you don't like. Remember also that the difference between SL and HL is smaller in English than in most other subjects, and hence the you'd most likely just end up removing one problem creating by creating another, bigger, problem.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Positron

[insomniac writer]

If you manage to convince your school, yes. As far as the IB is concerned you don't even exist yet (your school registers you around half-way through IB2) so it is wholly an internal matter, and theoretically you could change every single subject as long as your school lets you to.

However, do keep in mind that your school probably wont allow you to do this, and even if they did, it doesn't mean you should. It all comes down to the particulars of you situation. Are you planning to drop English to SL, and bumping up one of your SLs up to HL, or are you planning to drop English L&L altogether? Which subject would you take in its stead?

In any case, when you're making your decision what you should consider is the marginal benefit of changing classes. Sure there might be some "harm undone" by leaving that class, but let me assure you that starting a new class one year late will be much, much worse than taking a class you don't like. Remember also that the difference between SL and HL is smaller in English than in most other subjects, and hence the you'd most likely just end up removing one problem creating by creating another, bigger, problem.

I was planning on moving English Literature HL, so I wouldn't be dropping any HL classes nor would I have to move a class to a different level in order to complete the diploma.

I have considered the disadvantages, but I really can't cope with the teacher, my grades are just dropping in English Language and Literature because my teacher and I just can't cope with each other.

[Guest Positron]

Ah, I see. In that case I should take back the last paragraph of my previous post I don't take English Lit, but assuming it's about the same as the other Lit courses, the jump from L&L shouldn't be anything too bad. You might run into some problems with the books you've studied vs. books they've studied, assignments, and slightly different kinds of tests, but all this is nothing you couldn't bridge & catch up over the summer. Go and talk with your school's Lit teacher, ask what s/he thinks, and do it if you can

[flinquinnster]

If you manage to convince your school, yes. As far as the IB is concerned you don't even exist yet (your school registers you around half-way through IB2) so it is wholly an internal matter, and theoretically you could change every single subject as long as your school lets you to.

However, do keep in mind that your school probably wont allow you to do this, and even if they did, it doesn't mean you should. It all comes down to the particulars of you situation. Are you planning to drop English to SL, and bumping up one of your SLs up to HL, or are you planning to drop English L&L altogether? Which subject would you take in its stead?

In any case, when you're making your decision what you should consider is the marginal benefit of changing classes. Sure there might be some "harm undone" by leaving that class, but let me assure you that starting a new class one year late will be much, much worse than taking a class you don't like. Remember also that the difference between SL and HL is smaller in English than in most other subjects, and hence the you'd most likely just end up removing one problem creating by creating another, bigger, problem.

I was planning on moving English Literature HL, so I wouldn't be dropping any HL classes nor would I have to move a class to a different level in order to complete the diploma.

I have considered the disadvantages, but I really can't cope with the teacher, my grades are just dropping in English Language and Literature because my teacher and I just can't cope with each other.

Whilst I don't know all that much about the differences between Language & Literature and Literature courses, I was under the impression that Literature HL is quite different to L&L. Not only are the texts different, but the level of analysis is different as the Literature course focusses solely on literary analysis rather than language-based questions. Whilst I think it might be possible to catch up (though I really don't know), is there any way to address the issues that you have with your current L&L teacher? Perhaps also try out some Literature HL classes just to check that you're happy with the switch. But otherwise, as Positron has mentioned, it's really a decision for you and for your school. Good luck!

[maroctam]

I would not suggest switching to literature after having done a year in literature and language. I took Literature SL but I am aware of some differences between the L&L and the Lit course.

First of all, as people mentioned above, the books are not the same - you will not necessarily be able to use the works you learned in IB1 for the Lit exam, and you would need to catch up a considerable amount during the summer holiday (we studied 6 works in IB1, and we're SL!). This, in and of itself, will be very difficult because I don't think it's entirely possible (and it's definitely not easy) for anyone to read the books on their own and come up with a respectable analysis - so you will need to talk to the Lit teach and get notes from other Lit students.

Also, as far as I know, paper 1 is similar in both classes as in L&L you get something visual and a prose, while we got a poem and a prose. So if you know how to handle the prose, the skills should be transferable as far as I know. But another problem is the Paper 2, which is related to the books problem mentioned above. In Lit, we study 3 works of the same type; either poetry, prose or drama and have to write about how the writer / author / playwright use the techniques of the type you're working on to convey themes. This is not the case in L&L as they can writer about whatever combination of types of texts (some of my friends wrote about macbeth and beloved, which are drama and prose respectively). As a result, the way in which the essays are written in the two courses seem to be very different. Though, at our school we only started learning our paper 2 texts in IB2 - it would be lucky for you if it is the case at your school as well.

Another thing that is not at all the same is the graded assignments you do throughout the two years (I'm not saying IAs because the Works in Translation (World Lit) essay is not internally assessed). In Lit, 55% of of the final grade is done within the 2 years of IB, meaning that there is a lot of stuff that actually counts for the final grade that is done in IB1. I don't know exactly how the Lit and L&L IAs differ, but from what I've gathered from my friends is that they are definitely not transferable. (In L&L you do a group presentations that focuses solely on the "language" part of the syllabus, two written assignments focused on the literature part, and an oral poetry commentary if I'm not mistaken. In Lit we did 2 individual orals and a written assignment - the World Lit (on a translated work, hence the L&L ones aren't valid here).) At our school we wrote our World Lit and did the individual oral presentation (IOP) in IB1, for which we studied a total of 5 works, and these count for 25% and 15% of the final grade respectively. This is a significant portion of the English grade done in IB1 - and if your school does the same thing, you would have to catch up on a lot! I highly doubt it would be possible, honestly. Then in IB2 we did our individual oral commentary (IOC) and the exam papers, for which we studied a total of 5 works, and these make up the rest of the English grade. The IOC is similar to your oral poetry commentary as we studied 2 works for it (a play and a poet) and then chose a text at random on which we had to deliver an analysis, so maybe if you've already done your oral poetry commentary, the same recording can be used for the Lit IOC and can be marked with the Lit criteria, since we share some of the poets that can be studied.

If you're still considering changing classes, you would want to check what the Lit class has already done to see if you could catch up in just 1 year. Also, talk to the literature teacher to see if he / she is willing to help you individually because you will likely need some assistance and to see if you get along - because if you end up with the same problem you have in L&L, you won't achieve anything by moving to Lit.

Anyway, it's obvious that I am going to strongly advise you NOT to move to Lit due to the immense difference between the 2 syllabi and the difficulty you'll experience in trying to learn 2 years worth of (hard) material in only 1. I'm sorry for being so discouraging, but it's just my honest opinion. You should only change classes if you're seriously determined to do so, and put in A LOT of effort into English. Good luck!

[insomniac writer]

Ah, I see. In that case I should take back the last paragraph of my previous post I don't take English Lit, but assuming it's about the same as the other Lit courses, the jump from L&L shouldn't be anything too bad. You might run into some problems with the books you've studied vs. books they've studied, assignments, and slightly different kinds of tests, but all this is nothing you couldn't bridge & catch up over the summer. Go and talk with your school's Lit teacher, ask what s/he thinks, and do it if you can

Thank you, I'm still thinking about it and weighing out my options since I don't want to be too stressed than I already am with my other subjects and I really don't want to put my diploma at risk because of switching classes at the end of IB1. Thank you for advice though

[insomniac writer]

If you manage to convince your school, yes. As far as the IB is concerned you don't even exist yet (your school registers you around half-way through IB2) so it is wholly an internal matter, and theoretically you could change every single subject as long as your school lets you to.

However, do keep in mind that your school probably wont allow you to do this, and even if they did, it doesn't mean you should. It all comes down to the particulars of you situation. Are you planning to drop English to SL, and bumping up one of your SLs up to HL, or are you planning to drop English L&L altogether? Which subject would you take in its stead?

In any case, when you're making your decision what you should consider is the marginal benefit of changing classes. Sure there might be some "harm undone" by leaving that class, but let me assure you that starting a new class one year late will be much, much worse than taking a class you don't like. Remember also that the difference between SL and HL is smaller in English than in most other subjects, and hence the you'd most likely just end up removing one problem creating by creating another, bigger, problem.

I was planning on moving English Literature HL, so I wouldn't be dropping any HL classes nor would I have to move a class to a different level in order to complete the diploma.

I have considered the disadvantages, but I really can't cope with the teacher, my grades are just dropping in English Language and Literature because my teacher and I just can't cope with each other.

Whilst I don't know all that much about the differences between Language & Literature and Literature courses, I was under the impression that Literature HL is quite different to L&L. Not only are the texts different, but the level of analysis is different as the Literature course focusses solely on literary analysis rather than language-based questions. Whilst I think it might be possible to catch up (though I really don't know), is there any way to address the issues that you have with your current L&L teacher? Perhaps also try out some Literature HL classes just to check that you're happy with the switch. But otherwise, as Positron has mentioned, it's really a decision for you and for your school. Good luck!

It is different, however my Language and Literature teacher doesn't accept any personal analysis's or anything like that apart from hers, that's why I'm struggling so much with her and I'd much rather be reading texts, poetry, books, etc.... than studying the English language too. Unfortunately our school doesn't let us try out the classes we wish, anyhow I'll see what I can do, and if I really can't cope then I'll consider switching. Thank you

[insomniac writer]

I would not suggest switching to literature after having done a year in literature and language. I took Literature SL but I am aware of some differences between the L&L and the Lit course.

First of all, as people mentioned above, the books are not the same - you will not necessarily be able to use the works you learned in IB1 for the Lit exam, and you would need to catch up a considerable amount during the summer holiday (we studied 6 works in IB1, and we're SL!). This, in and of itself, will be very difficult because I don't think it's entirely possible (and it's definitely not easy) for anyone to read the books on their own and come up with a respectable analysis - so you will need to talk to the Lit teach and get notes from other Lit students.

Also, as far as I know, paper 1 is similar in both classes as in L&L you get something visual and a prose, while we got a poem and a prose. So if you know how to handle the prose, the skills should be transferable as far as I know. But another problem is the Paper 2, which is related to the books problem mentioned above. In Lit, we study 3 works of the same type; either poetry, prose or drama and have to write about how the writer / author / playwright use the techniques of the type you're working on to convey themes. This is not the case in L&L as they can writer about whatever combination of types of texts (some of my friends wrote about macbeth and beloved, which are drama and prose respectively). As a result, the way in which the essays are written in the two courses seem to be very different. Though, at our school we only started learning our paper 2 texts in IB2 - it would be lucky for you if it is the case at your school as well.

Another thing that is not at all the same is the graded assignments you do throughout the two years (I'm not saying IAs because the Works in Translation (World Lit) essay is not internally assessed). In Lit, 55% of of the final grade is done within the 2 years of IB, meaning that there is a lot of stuff that actually counts for the final grade that is done in IB1. I don't know exactly how the Lit and L&L IAs differ, but from what I've gathered from my friends is that they are definitely not transferable. (In L&L you do a group presentations that focuses solely on the "language" part of the syllabus, two written assignments focused on the literature part, and an oral poetry commentary if I'm not mistaken. In Lit we did 2 individual orals and a written assignment - the World Lit (on a translated work, hence the L&L ones aren't valid here).) At our school we wrote our World Lit and did the individual oral presentation (IOP) in IB1, for which we studied a total of 5 works, and these count for 25% and 15% of the final grade respectively. This is a significant portion of the English grade done in IB1 - and if your school does the same thing, you would have to catch up on a lot! I highly doubt it would be possible, honestly. Then in IB2 we did our individual oral commentary (IOC) and the exam papers, for which we studied a total of 5 works, and these make up the rest of the English grade. The IOC is similar to your oral poetry commentary as we studied 2 works for it (a play and a poet) and then chose a text at random on which we had to deliver an analysis, so maybe if you've already done your oral poetry commentary, the same recording can be used for the Lit IOC and can be marked with the Lit criteria, since we share some of the poets that can be studied.

If you're still considering changing classes, you would want to check what the Lit class has already done to see if you could catch up in just 1 year. Also, talk to the literature teacher to see if he / she is willing to help you individually because you will likely need some assistance and to see if you get along - because if you end up with the same problem you have in L&L, you won't achieve anything by moving to Lit.

Anyway, it's obvious that I am going to strongly advise you NOT to move to Lit due to the immense difference between the 2 syllabi and the difficulty you'll experience in trying to learn 2 years worth of (hard) material in only 1. I'm sorry for being so discouraging, but it's just my honest opinion. You should only change classes if you're seriously determined to do so, and put in A LOT of effort into English. Good luck!

Well for language and literature, my teacher made the class do their two orals in IB1, and all the WT/WA at the same time. We studied three literary works and are going to read the rest during the summer holidays since she doesn't want us to study them during school time because we would lose "precious class hours"

I recently just had my paper 1 for the grade 11 exams and we had a choice between two sections; A and B. In both sections there is a fiction and non-fiction text. I'm not sure about paper 2 since the teacher told us nothing about that.

I have talked to a few friends who take Literature HL and they all assured me that it is a hard subject, so I'm still contemplating if I should switch or not.

Thank you for the detailed information about the two course differences, I'll think about it since I don't want to be under too much pressure of the summer holidays nor during IB2. Thank you

[Sandwich]

It is different, however my Language and Literature teacher doesn't accept any personal analysis's or anything like that apart from hers, that's why I'm struggling so much with her and I'd much rather be reading texts, poetry, books, etc.... than studying the English language too. Unfortunately our school doesn't let us try out the classes we wish, anyhow I'll see what I can do, and if I really can't cope then I'll consider switching. Thank you

It may well be that I have this wrong and your teacher is indeed totally awful somehow, but in my experience (admittedly I'm hardly an english teacher!) people who say their teacher doesn't accept personal analysis are actually conducting an analysis that may be personal but doesn't entirely make sense with the text. People are always saying that literature is subjective, your own opinion has to be right because you are the reader and you have your interpretation blah blah... when it's really not the case. Loads of my friends used to complain and tell me that, but if you read their essays, you'd see that their interpretation is actually a mis-interpretation and they were always at it from an angle that couldn't be applied to the whole text. It was like they'd made up their mind what it was about based on certain parts they felt they got some kind of message from, but actually the whole thing didn't agree, so their analysis was always 'wrong' even thought it was subjective and personal. You can read different meanings into things, but there's only a limited range of meanings because at the end of the day, words are words.

As I said, perhaps your teacher is very strange somehow and I'm barking entirely up the wrong tree, in which case I apologise, but perhaps if you're finding that your teacher doesn't think your analysis entirely fits what you're writing about and there IS a problem with your approach to the analysis, it's better to do L&L because Literature is 100% the analytical part and it might actually be worse.

If not, bear in mind that a lot of these things are externally assessed, as are (obviously) the exams, so if your teacher doesn't understand your analysis and you're certain that it's not because you're accidentally writing something that's actually slightly incongruous or missing the major point - well, your teacher isn't going to determine your final IB grade. Also, if you want to check it's the teacher who's the problem, maybe try passing one of your essays onto the teacher who does the other class and just see whether they mark you up or not.

[insomniac writer]

It is different, however my Language and Literature teacher doesn't accept any personal analysis's or anything like that apart from hers, that's why I'm struggling so much with her and I'd much rather be reading texts, poetry, books, etc.... than studying the English language too. Unfortunately our school doesn't let us try out the classes we wish, anyhow I'll see what I can do, and if I really can't cope then I'll consider switching. Thank you

It may well be that I have this wrong and your teacher is indeed totally awful somehow, but in my experience (admittedly I'm hardly an english teacher!) people who say their teacher doesn't accept personal analysis are actually conducting an analysis that may be personal but doesn't entirely make sense with the text. People are always saying that literature is subjective, your own opinion has to be right because you are the reader and you have your interpretation blah blah... when it's really not the case. Loads of my friends used to complain and tell me that, but if you read their essays, you'd see that their interpretation is actually a mis-interpretation and they were always at it from an angle that couldn't be applied to the whole text. It was like they'd made up their mind what it was about based on certain parts they felt they got some kind of message from, but actually the whole thing didn't agree, so their analysis was always 'wrong' even thought it was subjective and personal. You can read different meanings into things, but there's only a limited range of meanings because at the end of the day, words are words.

As I said, perhaps your teacher is very strange somehow and I'm barking entirely up the wrong tree, in which case I apologise, but perhaps if you're finding that your teacher doesn't think your analysis entirely fits what you're writing about and there IS a problem with your approach to the analysis, it's better to do L&L because Literature is 100% the analytical part and it might actually be worse.

If not, bear in mind that a lot of these things are externally assessed, as are (obviously) the exams, so if your teacher doesn't understand your analysis and you're certain that it's not because you're accidentally writing something that's actually slightly incongruous or missing the major point - well, your teacher isn't going to determine your final IB grade. Also, if you want to check it's the teacher who's the problem, maybe try passing one of your essays onto the teacher who does the other class and just see whether they mark you up or not.

I showed my personal interpretations of a text to other English teachers at school and outside school who have read the text and they all agreed that I dig further around with my interpretations and demonstrate a high knowledge and understanding about the text. I link it with other factors that may play a role, etc.... Anyways, I've decided to just stick with my teacher instead of having to catch up a whole year's of work for a different subject.

I also help a friend who goes to a different school in England with her English essays. She writes what she thinks is right about an analysis of a poster, text, etc... then I do my own, we compare and then I help her with what she could've done better and what she did well because I analyze everything more in depth thanks to the IB. So then when she hands in her assignment, she always gets extremely high marks on the things I wrote, while in my case at school I get 3s and 4s despite analyzing everything in the exact same way. It's extremely frustrating and annoying.

Anyways, thank you again for helping me and taking your time.