My thoughts on how to get into Harvard, Oxford, Cambridge, MIT and so on

[OrangeHound]

Hello

I first want to introduce myself since this is my first post on this forum. I am a IB student in Italy and next year I going to be a senior and i am going to take all of my IB exams (ouch), I have HL- English A1, Italian B, History and SL- Biology, Math SL, and Spanish.

Ok now that that's done I just want to share my thoughts about the competition to enter the world's best universities.

Well first we need to see the admission policy of these schools and here is where the problems begin.

Lets say you are a average white American in a IB school and you want to get into Harvard. This is what happens:

(Just for the sake of simplicity lets say they Harvard only gets 100 students a year)

Now the first thing Harvard needs is all the minorities they can possibly get, so they need 2 native Americans, 10 African Americans, 3 Latin Americans, and 15 Europeans. So if my math is correct that is 30 students and you dd not enter in that category so lets see the second thing Harvard looks at.

Connections, yea unfortunately. So all the people who have a friend of a friend and have ok grades get in, that is another 20 students.

So here is where the real competition starts, the last 50 places.

First off they get the most nerds of nerds, which are like 25.

But wait, there are way more nerds with score of 45 in the IB, why don't they get in? Because Harvard does not want a desolate campus with all of its students in there dorms studying.

So the remaining 25 students are students that the guy at admissions likes. They all have like a 39, 40, 41 or 42 and they got in because during their interview Harvard liked their way of talking or their way of thinking or just something in their character.

(remember that the numbers i put here a probably not right its just to give the idea)

Now what do i mean by all this? That the high end collages just want smart people that also have something else other than there scores. So if you don't get in don't worry, no one has a secure entrance, not even that guy in your school that looks like the prefect student, its probable that he wont get in. All you have to do is study and do the things you love, if Harvard likes the things you love than good for you your in but if not then it does not matter, there are many other universities out there.

Its basically a luck game in which some people win and some don't, I know some "perfect" students that did not get in yet others that where good but not excellent did get in. I am going to try to apply for Oxford, it's very improbable that i will get in but its worth a try.

So...... if you have the minimal requirements to get in one of the great universities, give it a try even though its a long shot.

Post your thoughts and ideas if like and I hope I did not bore you to death.

[Forester]

I completely agree with you. It is luck if you are qualified. Therefore apply to as many as possible to increase your chances.

[Xerox]

a girl in my school who had predicted 45 didn't get into harvard...

she got into MIT though, unconditionally, she ended up with 44 i think

[starry-night]

100% agree with you. but at the same time this is just ur undergrad so i dont think it matters that much wat uni u get into now. rather the pressure comes later on so just do a variety of things (rather than just study study study) and pray to god that you can get into the best unis.

[Forester]

at Xerox: predicted grades doesn't mean much when you are applying to the US. They are just a part of your GPA

[blindpet]

Forester: when it comes to grades and applying to the US, your predicted grades are all that matter. My friend got into Duke and she was predicted 42 but her actual grades were much lower (35). But she's still going. So I don't follow when you say that predicted grades don't matter, they matter more than your actual grades - which in a way makes sense at least to me. Of course her extracurriculars were fantastic also, so if you mean that predicted grades are only a small slice of the overall pie, then I follow you completely .

[Forester]

If I am predicted 45, which I am, am I sure to be in at Duke? I don't think so. Duke is a high reach for me.

Your friend was predicted 42, ALSO had amazing school grades throughout her school career pushing her GPA close to the 4.0 mark and therefore was one of the high contributing factors for her admission into Duke.

Predicted grades by itself doesn't matter, actual grades by itself doesn't matter. It's the average of all of your grades for the last 4 years of your high school that matters.

your predicted grades are all that matter. <--- no... they will be treated like any other grades in any other semester report.

[uummmdonuts1]

what? how?

last two years ive been doing gcse's... will they look at them as well as my IB grades?

im a little confused... maybe lack of sleep. Whatever...

is what your saying that as well as IB grades they look at others and extra curriculars stuff like that?

[cereja]

Here's the thing - US unis won't even see your final grades until after you're accepted (unless you graduate in November).

Predicted grades don't mean ALL that much, either.

GPA counts, but only if you're well rounded.

Truth is, all Ivy League schools (Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc.) could fill their campuses with valedictorians only. But they don't. They want to see that there's more to the student than grades.

IB gives you great advantage over others because they know we need to complete CAS, EE, TOK, and other things besides the higher course load.

[Larawr42]

American universities will not look at your predicted scores on IB exams; they look at your course load freshmen through senior year, your GPA (weighted and unweighted), all of your grades from freshmen through junior year, extra curricular activities, community service, and SAT and ACT scores. The more well rounded you are the better. Actually, there are many schools that may not necessarily take IB into such great consideration, IB isn't quite as widely known in the United States, and therefore AP (Advanced Placement) is more widely recognized than IB.

[Forester]

Many universities such as University of Florida love IB students. There are scholarships given out to IB candidates at the University of Rochester, there is none especially for AP. "and therefore AP (Advanced Placement) is more widely recognized than IB. " is quite generalized. Being a diploma candidate automatically shows that your course load is heavy, equivalent to 6APs in Junior and Senior year.

Edited September 6, 2008 by Forester

[heronumbazero]

What you are saying makes sense. It sucks, but thats the way it rolls.

But seriously, who looks at what University you went to? Okay, Harvard has that "sticker shock" affect, but do you really learn more there than you would at University of (insert city name here)?

If you look at some of the most sucessful people in the world, did they go to top notch schools? Some did, some didnt. Some didnt even make it out of high school.

Sucess is taking what life has given you and making the best of it.

Just look at Harvard drop out Bill Gates.

[cereja]

READ THIS

This college counselor talks about "many Ivy League schools, and others who value the amount of students they reject. Some less known unis actually have "better qualified" professors. This article proves you don't have to go to a famous school to work hard and get a great career.

[chrypton]

What you are saying makes sense. It sucks, but thats the way it rolls.

But seriously, who looks at what University you went to? Okay, Harvard has that "sticker shock" affect, but do you really learn more there than you would at University of (insert city name here)?

If you look at some of the most sucessful people in the world, did they go to top notch schools? Some did, some didnt. Some didnt even make it out of high school.

Sucess is taking what life has given you and making the best of it.

Just look at Harvard drop out Bill Gates.

I completely agree! In the end it boils down to what you are actually capable of doing, and not what university you went to.

[hazemm]

I 100% agree with you man, thats why im applying to three reach schools this year Princeton, MIT, and Stanford because not only am i a minority, but my over all IB score is the minimum requirement for those schools, and i've been involved in alot of extracurricular activities. I also beleive they look for diversity so if you've lived in alot of places and can express understanding of many different cultures. Hopefully, ill get accepted into one of those three schools. Fingers crossed

[heronumbazero]

I would love to go to Stanford. It is my dream school. Props to you buddy. But yea, I have extras under my belt, but I'm not in full IB so that might work against me... I still have to take that darn SAT. I should study for that...

[thinkgreen95]

If you're a freshman now, but you're taking junior and senior classes (and some freshman classes) and plan to take at least one of your courses(math) at the university in sophomore year, and three in junior and four or five in senior, and you have a bunch of extracurriculars, do you stand a chance of getting into MIT or Harvard (MIT is my dream school---all MATH)...I sound like such a nerd....

[moneyfaery]

If you're a freshman now, but you're taking junior and senior classes (and some freshman classes) and plan to take at least one of your courses(math) at the university in sophomore year, and three in junior and four or five in senior, and you have a bunch of extracurriculars, do you stand a chance of getting into MIT or Harvard (MIT is my dream school---all MATH)...I sound like such a nerd....

Sure, you stand a chance, but that's no guarantee that you'll get in. Taking courses early won't mean much if you can't score highly in them.

[ezex]

Sure, you stand a chance, but that's no guarantee that you'll get in. Taking courses early won't mean much if you can't score highly in them.

Ya, it worked for me though. I did EXACTLY what you said. You pretty much wrote my academic life story right there. I want to dispute on the whole IB issue so here it goes

IB dillema:

First off, MIT (it's the one I'm most familiar with) takes about 1300 students a year. The distribution is something like 20% black, 25% asian, 30% white, 15% hispanic, and "international/other" like 10% as well. But if you ask me, and I've been to MIT, everyone who argues about having an unfair advantage because of ethnicity is ignorant because every single student at MIT deserves to be there and every single one of them contributes one way or another. As far as IB goes, no. No. No. They DON'T. They only see IB as a sign of endurance: if you're in IB all they get from it is that you can really handle the obnoxious amount of work you get at MIT. I will generalize here becaue I've seen it happen way too often: MOST people around the world think IB classes are "advanced" or "hard". I'm sorry, but they're not. Not by a long shot. Of course remember that I'm talking about the top engineering school in the world, of course they're hard courses, but not MIT hard.

Predicted grades? HAHAHAHA. Our school and many around Florida don't have that and trust me, they care very little about this. Again, they are REALLY IMPORTANT, but they don't show that you have a passion for organic chemistry, or nuclear physics, it just shows that you will be consistent with your work at MIT.

So if IB, one of the hardest and most challanging programs in the world, doesn't prove that you're MIT aerospace engineering material, then what does? Well (don't hate me for saying this Forester ) AP classes ae a huge deal. When I say huge I mean huge. It's true, MIT recognizes several IB classes as equivalents to AP classes (I think that getting a 7 in HL physics counts as getting a 4 or 5 in AP physics and same with Math HL) but has anyone ever stopped to think about how IB is really about writting essays and doing english orals and reading novels or history books? What good is it to MIT that you're predicted a 45? They'll like it, of course, but wouldn't it be great for them to see that you worked your hardest in IB and on top of that spent all your extra time swimming? Or maybe they like how you got all A's and some B's on your junior year on all your IB classes but are astounded by the fact that you also took 2 AP math/science classes and a summer college class.

I do agree, however, with the first post since the college admissions process is quite complex. But don't forget, that of those 50 people who were picked first because of ethnicity...EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM WAS AS GOOD, if not better, THAN THE RESTING 50! I'm extremely happy and shocked that I made it into MIT (especially in early action) but what I really like about it is that when I'm up there I really feel like I belong. And ya, maybe I'm not even gona get my IB dipploma but that definately doesn't mean I can't take the worload from IB or the level of difficulty of MIT classes. So drop that novel right now and go register for differential equations at that college down the street (i'm like 20 miles away but lets assume its down the street)!

[moneyfaery]

Ezex - it's not that surprising really. When I started IB, I remember someone telling me US univs didn't like IB as much as AP. And they have good reason to - AP is mainly based in the US while IB is more or less international. That is, they can't control the content as well.

Likewise, UK univs seem to prefer A-levels over IB. Once again, not surprising.

Congrats on getting into MIT! However, neither AP nor IB courses show you have 'passion' in a subject. It may show you're capable of achieving high marks, but that's it. I'm guessing univs will look towards your ECs to see where your interests lie.