Retakes - friend or foe?

[hoping to study medicine]

Hi! I just finished IB May 2011 exams and applied to all the medical univiersites in Sweden, Denmark and Norway (oh and also Gdansk in Poland).

My grades:

Biology HL - 5

Chemistry HL - 5

English A2 HL - 6

Swedish A1 SL - 6

Physics SL - 5

Math SL - 5

EE in Biology - A

TOK - B

I got a total of 35/45, which isnt enough for any of the universities I applied to, except for Gdansk (Poland)

SO i am torn between two options: accepting my place at medical univeristy of Gdansk OR DOING RETAKES!!

This decision is of course COMPLETELY dependant on how retakes affects my chances of getting in to universities. Denamrk apparently doesnt accept retakes at all!! As for Sweden and Norway, does any one know how retakes affects chances of getting in??

If I were to do retakes, I am planning to do something that can look good in personal statement... (like take a psychology course OR working at municipal care services OR help out at a clinic....dunno!!)

THE MOST IMORTANT QUESTION for you: do your know how retakes affects my chances of getting into medical universities in Scotland, England or Ireland?

I would be eternally grateful for reply!! I am desperate desperate DESPERATE!

"PUSS och KRAM" from Sweden

[Sandwich]

Well, the most obvious choice is to go to Gdansk, although one of my friends is studying Medicine in Warsaw and says that the system in Poland is pretty brutal, it sounds like they have a very high drop-out rate and a really very stressful method of examining people. I don't know if that's the same all around Poland, but if you struggled to get top marks in the IB then I'd consider the way you are assessed at Medical School as quite important. My friend is exceedingly bright, managed to get 42 in the IB despite having the whole thing in her second language and is STILL finding it quite challenging! The impression I get is that as part of it they just ask you question after question until you get one wrong and then send you out, so it sounds like crazy high pressure to me. Then again as I said, I don't know for sure it'd be similar at Gdansk.

Retakes are acceptable for UK Universities (so, Scotland and England), although every medical school is independent so some might say no where others would consider your application - two people I know were offered medical places despite IB retakes, although only one of them actually managed to score high enough in the re-takes to get accepted (remember that they don't let you re-do your IAs and it's often that rather than the difficulty of the exams which lets people down for science re-takes). However competition for Medical School in the UK is also extremely high, so unless your scores are also competitive and you have a stellar personal statement to compensate for your academic side clearly having been a bit weak, you may not be considered for an interview.

As for what looks good in a personal statement, clinical work experience or volunteering DO look good. If you're going to do some kind of extra learning, rather than doing a course in Psychology (which is only loosely linked to Medicine), what I can tell you goes down VERY well is expressing an interest in science and research, especially if you are going to apply to a Medical School that is strong in those areas (and the top ones all are, in the UK at least and I expect elsewhere too - the best centres are also responsible for generating a lot of research and they want doctors who are scientists as well as clinicians). For instance, try contacting your local university and asking if they have any roles as assistants or technicians in lab projects. It'll make your personal statement quite unique and give you loads to talk about in your interview (write it up!). It's what I would do if I were in your position I'm not sure about in Sweden, but they have grants available for people willing to undertake lab work via various institutes in the UK (e.g. the Wellcome Foundation) and it's possible you might be able to find an equivalent? The main bonus of this is that you get paid for your work but at no cost to the lab, so they'd be eager to have you!

Good luck!

[hoping to study medicine]

Thank you so much for your detailed reply! I appreciate it so much!

Yes some people I have talked to have also advised that I choose Gdnask, although I am feeling reluctant for two main reasons: the total cost of the education is 600 000 SEK (which is almost £60 000 and I would rather pay that money to study in UK where I know the language) AND I have a hard time accepting my final grade as representative of what I am capable of. I have gotten a strong urge to study intensively, as much as it takes, to get high marks on retakes. I willing to work hard! But I just need to know if it is a smart risk, considering that one might be treated so much harsher as a retake candidate.

Yes I have gotten the impression that the polish system is the opposite of the Brittish and Scandinavian sytem in the sense that there it is easy to get in but hard to pass, while in the Brittish and Scandiavian, it is REALLY difficult to get in but "easier" once you are in...

Gdansk, from what I have heard from a friend who goes there, also has rather brutal examination methods - which is actually another reason for me being a bit reluctant.

As for the IAs (which you said couldnt be redone) does the univerity look at the specific grade of that, even if you get top marks on the exams?

Thank you so much for the advice on my personal statement!! I will look into voluntary jobs in the lab at Lund University and I think I am able to work a bit at clinic.

[Sandwich]

Thank you so much for your detailed reply! I appreciate it so much!

Yes some people I have talked to have also advised that I choose Gdnask, although I am feeling reluctant for two main reasons: the total cost of the education is 600 000 SEK (which is almost £60 000 and I would rather pay that money to study in UK where I know the language) AND I have a hard time accepting my final grade as representative of what I am capable of. I have gotten a strong urge to study intensively, as much as it takes, to get high marks on retakes. I willing to work hard! But I just need to know if it is a smart risk, considering that one might be treated so much harsher as a retake candidate.

Yes I have gotten the impression that the polish system is the opposite of the Brittish and Scandinavian sytem in the sense that there it is easy to get in but hard to pass, while in the Brittish and Scandiavian, it is REALLY difficult to get in but "easier" once you are in...

Gdansk, from what I have heard from a friend who goes there, also has rather brutal examination methods - which is actually another reason for me being a bit reluctant.

As for the IAs (which you said couldnt be redone) does the univerity look at the specific grade of that, even if you get top marks on the exams?

Thank you so much for the advice on my personal statement!! I will look into voluntary jobs in the lab at Lund University and I think I am able to work a bit at clinic.

I can understand cost being a big motive and certainly if you don't speak Polish you're probably best aiming for somewhere other than Poland! That's something you'd have to decide for yourself though. As for re-takes, if you can study hard and really think that you have the capacity to get a 7 in Biology & Chemistry in particular then I'd go for it - although I know that my friend who I mentioned previously, the one who re-took but failed to get the grades, did exactly the same but just got 5/5 again the second time. If it was not studying sufficiently hard enough which let you down the first time, you obviously know how to rectify the situation, but if you did try quite hard the first time I suggest trying to find a different teacher from the one you had at school and really making sure that you understand things properly. Especially for Chemistry a lot of it is understanding and being able to recognise the stuff you've been taught out of context, so actually it's as much about a facility for Chemistry as the hours of effort you put in.

As for the IAs then no, they don't look at the marks (they don't get a breakdown and in any case the maximum amount of knowledge they have about the IB is usually "the mark is out of 7, a 7 means 'good'"!) but I meant to say that lots of people do badly in their IA and therefore a re-take doesn't help them much. For instance from my own experience I had my Chemistry IAs predicted a 7, got a 7 in the exams but a low 6 overall because my IA was moderated down to a grade 4. Even if I'd re-taken and aced the exams completely, I don't know if I could have got a 7 given that my IAs were already so low. So what I really meant to say was that you have to remember that despite improved performance in the exams, you've got to consider the extent to which your coursework is limiting, if it is (you may have done well and so this is irrelevant for you!).

Also, on a side note, I don't think that the British system (don't know enough about the Scandinavian one) is necessarily easier to pass, they're devilishly hard in their own ways, but they are certainly less trigger-happy when it comes to getting rid of you! Generally you have to fail your whole year twice to get kicked out in the UK (although statistics of 1/3rd failing or dropping out are not unheard of - indeed it happened to my year).

[hoping to study medicine]

Its a tough decision, but I feel that I am leaning towards retakes rather than going to Gdansk.

The subjects that I am interested in retaking are: Biology HL, Chemistry HL, Math SL and possibly physics SL.

My IA grades: Raw score

Biology HL - 5 36/48

Chemistry HL - 5 30/48

Math SL - 6 31/40

Physics SL - 5 35/48

Based on these IA grades, do you think it possible to get a 7 as a final grade in these subjects?

I find it difficult to pinpoint a specific cause for why I didnt achieve the grades that I wished, but I think it is a combination of that I should have adapted the amount of time studying to what I needed (meaning that I should have started studying intesively much earlier) AND that there was so much to keep track of at the same time...

Ah ok thats good to know about the British universities - that they at least have a bit more mercy on those who dont pass, but that is not to say that it is an easier education.

You wouldnt happen to know what the relative imporatance of the grades compared to the personal statement is?

Thank you so much again for your thorough explanations!

[lilianna009]

Actually I'm quite surprised that those 5s are enough . IB is unfortunately not well recognised and appreciated by Polish Unis and I guess 5 is sth about only 70% ([100/7]*5) and mostly if you take Polish matura exam you need to have at least about 80% from each (biology and chemistry hl and physics or maths sl) or even more at those the best.

Try retakes. If anything goes wrong, you can always try again in Gdansk.

Edited July 23, 2011 by lilianna009

[Gaby]

Actually I'm quite surprised that those 5s are enough . IB is unfortunately not well recognised and appreciated by Polish Unis and I guess 5 is sth about only 70% ([100/7]*5) and mostly if you take Polish matura exam you need to have at least about 80% from each (biology and chemistry hl and physics or maths sl) or even more at those the best.

Try retakes. If anything goes wrong, you can always try again in Gdansk.

Yes, they are hard on IB, but usually not med schools, they're way more lenient. Polish examination methods might seem harsh, facilities a bit worse than somewhere else, but bear in mind - Polish doctors are highly sought after everywhere in the world. Gdansk, as far as I know, has a very good med school, one of the best facilities and, in addition, is a beautiful city.

[Peanut Butter Jelly]

So if you take retakes, you need a gap year?

[hoping to study medicine]

Actually I'm quite surprised that those 5s are enough . IB is unfortunately not well recognised and appreciated by Polish Unis and I guess 5 is sth about only 70% ([100/7]*5) and mostly if you take Polish matura exam you need to have at least about 80% from each (biology and chemistry hl and physics or maths sl) or even more at those the best.

Try retakes. If anything goes wrong, you can always try again in Gdansk.

Yes, they are hard on IB, but usually not med schools, they're way more lenient. Polish examination methods might seem harsh, facilities a bit worse than somewhere else, but bear in mind - Polish doctors are highly sought after everywhere in the world. Gdansk, as far as I know, has a very good med school, one of the best facilities and, in addition, is a beautiful city.

Yes those 5s werent exactley what i had planned to apply to med schools with But it was thanks to the entrance test that I got in.

Arrg its so difficult because I keep hearing wonderful things about Gdansk, but I am kind of torn by my fear of the new: I have never been there AND if i do retakes that buys me another year... In which I am more than willing to work my ass off to get the grades and do various volunteer jobs (like in a lab and clinic) that could look good on my resumee and personal statement! All I need to know is if this risk is worth taking. In other words: how large of a disadvantage do I have if I apply to UK with retake grades?

They require higher grades from retake candidates - is 40 enough? Or how many points do you think they expect from retakers?

Thanks for your interest and information!

So if you take retakes, you need a gap year?

Yep I would have to take a gap year

Edited July 24, 2011 by Summer Glau
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