Maurice Ravel Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 I see a lot of people panicking over tuition fees for high status universities, but I don't see why! Most IB students are going into sciences and business. The job market for an Ivy League or Oxbridge graduate is probably decent and besides scholarships, there are various loans that can be paid back a long time after graduation. There's government loans, bank loans and all sorts of international scholarships given to the few admitted to Ivy Leagues and Oxbridge.So why is everybody so worried? My parents clearly don't have the money to pay 200k for an undergrad at an Ivy League, but I still will go if accepted because there are various loans and scholarships that I can get. Besides, future doctors and entrepreneurs don't need to worry about paying anything back for (in many cases) six to twelve months after graduate school or residency. Then, what's the big deal with med schools being expensive? Am I missing a point here?There's this phenomenon called BARGAINING. If you're admitted into Oxford, there's tons of bargaining you could do as long as you have a few acceptance letters in hand. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
__inthemaking Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Well taking out loans means you're going to be in debt, which isn't fun for most people. Like just the idea of being in debt make most people feel anxious and uneasy.I have nothing to complain about though, my tuition was $3000 CAD this year, haha. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBStuck Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 tuition was a big thing for me. i didn't want to be in a large amount of debt because i don't expect to be making a lot of money when i graduate to help pay that off, and my parents don't give me any money for college. i have to pay about 1000 USD a semester for my uni and that is with the help of a loan, a grant, and two scholarships. money is a big issue to a lot of people, and that fancey Ivey league degree will really help you get your first job. for me it wasn't worth all that money, and that wasn't the type of university that i was interested in.l i did find a good buiness school with great accrediation, but it sint' too expensive. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneyfaery Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 1) Not everyone is eligible for a loan/bursary/grant.2) There often is a max loan amount i.e. the loan won't cover all expenses.3) Loan = debt + interest4) Straight out of school, your pay won't be that great. It'll take a few years to work up to your "potential".5) Scholarships are often severely limited in number or value. Once again, they won't cover all costs.6) You can obviously "bargain" if you're such a good applicant that univs are fighting for you... but most likely not. As an international, you'll be lucky if you even get into a "top" univ because of quotas, limited spaces, and excessive numbers of superior applicants. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abu Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Getting loans, scholarships, grants and other financial sponsorships is all fine and dandy when one is a local student and it is actually possible. The tables turn when the student is an international, and is solely dependent on savings (haha as if the student has a $100K hiding around somewhere) and from parents. In reality, the student's government rarely gives out money to students going abroad. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruan Chun Xian Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 6) You can obviously "bargain" if you're such a good applicant that univs are fighting for you... but most likely not. As an international, you'll be lucky if you even get into a "top" univ because of quotas, limited spaces, and excessive numbers of superior applicants.QFENot all international applicants who are rejected from top unis are rejected because they don't deserve to go there, but because of quotas. If you are so lucky to get admitted into some top US Ivies, I believe they cover all your expenses if your [parents'] income is below X amount. However you have to get accepted first. Getting loans, scholarships, grants and other financial sponsorships is all fine and dandy when one is a local student and it is actually possible. The tables turn when the student is an international, and is solely dependent on savings (haha as if the student has a $100K hiding around somewhere) and from parents. In reality, the student's government rarely gives out money to students going abroad.QFE again. The reality is that international students, especially from developing countries, go overseas to study because they want to stay overseas. No government is going to fund that unless you're already from a government university going for a higher degree with a promise to go back to your home country. Conversely, not many government give out scholarships to international students because they might just leave at the end of the degree. Even if they do, with a condition, the number they give out is probably countable on one hand. There will always be more capable students than there is money available. And I'm sorry do you know how long a med degree is? To be borrowing money for that amount of time is not fun. Quite frankly your view of this is very naive. Maybe you are planning to go to uni in your home country as a local which makes things oh so much easier, more so because fees are probably at least half that of international students. But don't presume that everyone can just get money at the drop of a hat like that. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice Ravel Posted March 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 1) Not everyone is eligible for a loan/bursary/grant.2) There often is a max loan amount i.e. the loan won't cover all expenses.3) Loan = debt + interest4) Straight out of school, your pay won't be that great. It'll take a few years to work up to your "potential".5) Scholarships are often severely limited in number or value. Once again, they won't cover all costs.6) You can obviously "bargain" if you're such a good applicant that univs are fighting for you... but most likely not. As an international, you'll be lucky if you even get into a "top" univ because of quotas, limited spaces, and excessive numbers of superior applicants.I don't know how many of you have been on university websites. Yale Uni guarantees covering all expenses if the student is accepted. Same with many Ivy Leagues. Canada gives OSAP to students studying abroad in distinguished universities because it is part of their responsibility to support their own citizens. The point of the 6-12 months is getting a good job with a nice pay AND you have to consider that the monthly amount you will be paying back is MINISCULE for most people in comparison to what they earn. Beginner surgeons and family doctors (after residency that is) earn anything around 100k, which is enough to cover something around 1k per month.Universities and the Canadian government do not charge huge interest. It ruins their image and it puts students under strain. That's banks' business. It's still worth it IMHO. Scholarships cover some of tuition. I don't remember mentioning all of it.Lastly, bargaining is a very typical process during university registeration and it is often not limited to the very specific superior students. That is the point of Early Decision. It's easier to get in, but you can't bargain. They can now charge you the full tuition. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBStuck Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 i wish that i could have made a deal with a uni to get lower tuition. that would be nice. and i wish that all you siad was true in every case. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice Ravel Posted March 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) i wish that i could have made a deal with a uni to get lower tuition. that would be nice. and i wish that all you siad was true in every case.OSAP website:https://osap.gov.on.ca/CGI-BIN/LANSAWEB?WEB...865900K+OSP+ENGYou can do more searches with regards to American universities. I don't know if you're a Canadian citizen or not, but I feel like people think I'm very naïve/ignorant to think the way I do.As you can see in the link, government of Ontario counts Harvard as eligible for loans. Same with most famous universities (including European universities).Yale website:http://www.yale.edu/admit/freshmen/financi...philosophy.htmlAs is written, "Once a student is admitted, Yale meets 100% of that student's demonstrated financial need."Also:"New Haven, Conn. — Yale University President Richard C. Levin announced today that Yale is reducing the average cost of sending a student to Yale College by over 50% for families with financial need. This new policy will apply to all students returning to campus in the fall as well as entering freshmen. This represents the largest increase in spending for financial aid in the University’s history.The reduction in costs will be spread across a broad range of incomes. Families with incomes below $120,000 will see their contributions cut by more than 50%, while most families with incomes between $120,000 and $200,000 will see cost reductions of 33% or more.Families earning less than $60,000 annually will not make any contribution toward the cost of a child’s education, and families earning $60,000 to $120,000 will typically contribute from 1% to 10% of total family income. The contribution of aided families earning above $120,000 will average 10% of income."In this case, if your parents earn more than 200, 000, you have nothing to whine about. Otherwise, the cost reduction can be huge. Edited March 31, 2009 by Maurice Ravel Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruan Chun Xian Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Ok. I'm not saying it's impossible to get loans/grants/scholarships/have the uni cover your costs BUT it is not applicable to everyone - that is the point we are trying to make. Yes, some Ivies such as Yale and Harvard will meet all financial needs of the student and is sufficiently need-blind etc but you mentioned Oxbridge as well in your original post. Oxbridge do not do this. Not all Ivies do this either. So the problem remains. And there are other prestigious universities than Ivies and Oxbridge, those are not necessarily for everyone you know. Money is an issue and a worry when it comes to university for most people, unless you happen to be a millionaire. I don't know why you can't grasp thsi fact. Even you do get grants and scholarships you have to apply for them, they don't just drop down at your feet. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deissi Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Maurice: you claim us of being naïve, but I think you're the one being a tad naïve here. Your fundamental assumptions blind you from seeing why what you claim does not work. You don't seem to consider that each student is an individual, and one cannot thus make such grand generalizations of the matter. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice Ravel Posted March 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Maurice: you claim us of being naïve, but I think you're the one being a tad naïve here. Your fundamental assumptions blind you from seeing why what you claim does not work. You don't seem to consider that each student is an individual, and one cannot thus make such grand generalizations of the matter.No...I did not call you naïve. You obviously haven't read my posts because other people called me naïve. Yes. I understand individuality. I just don't understand all the whining over tuition. Especially at my school. I mean, people who want to study medicine decide not to because they think it would be too expensive...WTF?! I mean on the long run, the education costs would be nothing in comparisonn to what they will learn. Furthermore, banks, universities and government give so many loans that cover all costs with small interest.Still nothing compared to the average income (200-400k)... Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abu Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Still nothing compared to the average income (200-400k)...Who or which job has an average income of 200-400K? Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneyfaery Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Who or which job has an average income of 200-400K?Neurosurgeon? Furthermore, banks, universities and government give so many loans that cover all costs with small interest.I wish that was the case. Since it's not, could you perhaps tell the gov't/univ to give/lend me the rest of the money I need so I don't have to get a job and work my ass off? Thanks in advance.A few universities are not representative of all universities. If the world was indeed as how you described it, then no, there wouldn't be any "whining"; but sadly, it is not. Your view of money is interesting though. Are you from a rich family? You seem to think that money grows on trees. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruan Chun Xian Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Don't you think that maybe, just maybe, you can't necessarily guarantee yourself a job that earns 200K after university when you're just entering med in first year? The assumption that any med/law/business/whatever graduate fresh out of university would easily and automatically earn that much money (anywhere in the world) is quite far-fetched, especially when there are so many other factors that could affect your getting a job. You're kind of missing the point that not everyone want to be in debt, however small the interest, especially not in today's economic conditions. You are, perhaps, speaking from the point of view of a local student wanting to study at a local university in your country, which I will not comment specifically to. I see you haven't addressed the point of international students studying abroad. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBStuck Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 also with medicne.. don't forget about all those thingies that you have to pay and soem of them are not small. Malpractice.....not exactly something cheap to pay off.and i am not cannadian. i live in the US.Yale droped thier cost coz our govenment forced them too. all the Iveys were sitting on too much money so the govn't told them that they had to lower tutituion costs. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwich Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Conjouring up money is not easy Especially for 6 years of medical school. Especially if your parents' financial status means you can't get any scholarships, bursaries or grants. Not everybody has parents who're willing to fully fund them, y'know.At the end of the day, who wants to be in debt more than they absolutely have to? xP Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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