Applying to University in the UK : Do I Have A Chance?

[emmanem]

Here are the universities I want to apply to:

Oxford - PPE

London School of Economics - International Relations

University College London - European Social and Political Studies

University of Edinburgh - International Relations and Law

I am only in my first year of the IB diploma, but I have a few questions...

What extracurriculars will look good in conjunction with my chosen degrees? (I do GSA, Political Thought, Volleyball/Soccer, Prom Committee, and I do costumes for school plays)

What subjects should I take at HL? (I am thinking English, History, and Film. My school doesn't do HL Language, but I might be able to do that on my own)

Would a History EE be best for me? (I want to do something about the Special Relationship, will that help?)

Thank you! If you have any questions I'll answer them gladly

[Sandwich]

Well I have no idea what GSA or Political Thought might be, but stuff demonstrating debating skills etc. is always a good idea. I know lots of people do MUN (model united nations), but debating competitions of any kind are good. IMO the format of MUN is ridiculously boring

For your HL subjects you'd ideally want to do 'hard' academic subjects if you want to be taken seriously (i.e. not Film, this is considered a soft subject). Also, you need to fulfil the entry requirements of the Universities you apply to as a basic minimum! Have you actually looked at these?

For instance, when applying to courses which include the word 'Economics' it is very likely that Maths will be required to a high level. Especially if you choose to make your degree more economics-based.

When applying for ESPS, you spend a year abroad in the country of your major language, so yes you do need to take it as a HL subject.

Look at the websites of the Universities/courses you want to take and you'll find their entry requirements. e.g. http://www.ucl.ac.uk...equirements.htm (ESPS at UCL). You can't get in without having done the required subjects at HL and achieving the required point scores, so you should certainly bear that in mind when choosing your subjects!

Re: the EE, doing a related EE may or may not be helpful. Ultimately if you don't do a related EE, nothing bad will happen. If it's very relevant, you can put it in your Personal Statement when applying and they may or may not notice it, depending on if you are interviewed (some courses do and some don't interview - I expect Oxford and UCL out of those choices would definitely interview, probably by phone unless there's a local representative) and whether they understand fully what an EE is (the IB is not always well understood). Also, just for the record, you cannot do a History EE on events within the past 10 years, so you'd have to pick an example of the 'Special Relationship' lapdog effect from back in the past a bit. I really wouldn't concern yourself about your EE too much yet.

On a final note, if your exams are May 2013, haven't you already started doing these subjects? Surely it's getting dangerously close to too late to change?

[Guest Soiboist]

Also remember that universities in the UK, unlike American, don't emphasise extracurricular activities. Anything related to your degree is impressive to the admission officers, so debating is good. But, volleyball or football will not help you directly with your application. You shouldn't quit them of course because of that though.

Most importantly, you need to have good grades and read widely around your subject. The latter will help with showing a genuine interest in your personal statement and as preparation for the interview in PPE. To stand a realistic chance for PPE, I'd say you need at least 40 points, even though people occasionally get in with 38-39.

London School of Economics might be a bit different, however, since I have a feeling it is more American-inspired. They probably view extracurriculars more favourably.

[Arrowhead]

Well I have no idea what GSA or Political Thought might be, but stuff demonstrating debating skills etc. is always a good idea. I know lots of people do MUN (model united nations), but debating competitions of any kind are good. IMO the format of MUN is ridiculously boring

I would add onto this by saying that seeing as you are on the Prom Committee and such, you should play up any managerial positions of responsibility that you've held. In fields like International Relations, management plays as important a role as understanding politics and history. So focussing on that aspect of certain unconventional extra-curricular activities would be to your benefit.

For your HL subjects you'd ideally want to do 'hard' academic subjects if you want to be taken seriously (i.e. not Film, this is considered a soft subject). Also, you need to fulfil the entry requirements of the Universities you apply to as a basic minimum! Have you actually looked at these?

For instance, when applying to courses which include the word 'Economics' it is very likely that Maths will be required to a high level. Especially if you choose to make your degree more economics-based.

When applying for ESPS, you spend a year abroad in the country of your major language, so yes you do need to take it as a HL subject.

Some very valid points. I would like to add on to this and mention that Film is generally counted as a non-preferred subject. But by taking English and History, you are off-setting that to an extent. If you enjoy taking Film HL, then so be it, but perhaps you should seriously give some thought into pursuing a Language HL alongside what you have now. It will better your chances tremendously.

Universities in the UK, unlike the US, put a lot of stock in your subject choices in the IB (specifically your HLs). They don't really care to know 'you' as a person, they want to know that the subject you're applying for is the be all and end all of your life and you cannot imagine yourself doing anything but studying this. Even if you don't mean that or aren't sure, you need to fake your immense love and passion for the course you're applying for.

Also remember that universities in the UK, unlike American, don't emphasise extracurricular activities. Anything related to your degree is impressive to the admission officers, so debating is good. But, volleyball or football will not help you directly with your application. You shouldn't quit them of course because of that though.

Exactly. If you cannot talk about the activity in direct conjunction with what you're applying for, it's best that you not mention it at all.

Most importantly, you need to have good grades and read widely around your subject. The latter will help with showing a genuine interest in your personal statement and as preparation for the interview in PPE. To stand a realistic chance for PPE, I'd say you need at least 40 points, even though people occasionally get in with 38-39.

Actually, so long as you're predicted at least a 38, you have a really good shot in terms of grades. You just need to make sure that your Personal Statement and Teacher Recommendation is amazing and you will get up to the interview process.

London School of Economics might be a bit different, however, since I have a feeling it is more American-inspired. They probably view extracurriculars more favourably.

I don't know where you got that from, but it is completely untrue. LSE is just like all the other UK Unis and they view your grades and subject-related extra-curricular activities as being of paramount importance.

Also, OP, for your information, I would think twice about pursuing International Relations at LSE, their IR department is one of the worst among the top Unis and most of the people I know from IR are extremely dissatisfied with their LSE experience so far. It's a pretty crappy course with even crappier teachers and lecturers. I would keep that in mind.

Cheers,

Arrowhead.

[Guest Soiboist]

Yes, you do stand a reasonable chance with around 39 points for Oxford. The point is, I think your chances increase tremendously if your grades are above average. The IB does not, unlike A levels, suffer from grade inflation, and IB grades are thus a good measure of academic capability. A person having 42-43 points does not have many competitors when viewing grades, which undoubtedly indicates something special about that student.

I trust you on your information about LSE. Though, I have seen several people with incredibly high IB grades, some with 45, being rejected. The only reasonable explanation those people found were lack of extracurriculars, but I guess it could just have been anything else really.

[Arrowhead]

Yes, you do stand a reasonable chance with around 39 points for Oxford. The point is, I think your chances increase tremendously if your grades are above average. The IB does not, unlike A levels, suffer from grade inflation, and IB grades are thus a good measure of academic capability. A person having 42-43 points does not have many competitors when viewing grades, which undoubtedly indicates something special about that student.

While I agree that compared to A-Levels, the IB Programme does not suffer from grade inflation (as much), you're making a huge assumption that Universities actually understand the difficulty and challenges that IB students face in comparison to A-Level students. Most of them don't. While UK Unis are more willing to lend recognition to the IB unlike the US ones who list the programme as an extra-curricular, UK Unis still have unrealistic demands from IB students when you compare the offers they make to A-Level students for the same spots on a course.

I trust you on your information about LSE. Though, I have seen several people with incredibly high IB grades, some with 45, being rejected. The only reasonable explanation those people found were lack of extracurriculars, but I guess it could just have been anything else really.

You will find that most people who get rejected from LSE don't write well enough Personal Statements. I know loads of people at UCL and King's who've gotten rejected from LSE Law, they've had 43 and 44 predicted scores and I only had a 38 predicted when I applied. The difference came down to Personal Statements. My flatmate, also studying at LSE for Law, had an AAB predicted in her A-Levels, yet she got in and many of her peers with straight AAAA predicted scores got rejected. It isn't really about extra-curricular activities because unlike the US, you don't fill out a separate form that lists every extra-curricular activity you've possibly ever been a part of. It's how you sell yourself on paper in your PS and how well your teacher supplements your application in his/her recommendation.

[Guest Soiboist]

"While I agree that compared to A-Levels, the IB Programme does not suffer from grade inflation (as much), you're making a huge assumption that Universities actually understand the difficulty and challenges that IB students face in comparison to A-Level students. Most of them don't. While UK Unis are more willing to lend recognition to the IB unlike the US ones who list the programme as an extra-curricular, UK Unis still have unrealistic demands from IB students when you compare the offers they make to A-Level students for the same spots on a course."

I don't assume that universities understand the IB. You misinterpret my point. The difficulty of the programme aside, taking the IB means that you'll be compared to other IB students in your application. Thus, there's a great advantage in having 42-43 points because very few students achieve such high grades. Having 38-39 means that you'll be regarded as a worse student with less academic capability, despite 38-39 being a great score. Surely, you could be just as strong as some A Levels applicants, but you'll be compared to other IB students and so disadvantaged: a direct result of the inability of universities to understand the IB.

[Arrowhead]

I don't assume that universities understand the IB. You misinterpret my point. The difficulty of the programme aside, taking the IB means that you'll be compared to other IB students in your application. Thus, there's a great advantage in having 42-43 points because very few students achieve such high grades. Having 38-39 means that you'll be regarded as a worse student with less academic capability, despite 38-39 being a great score. Surely, you could be just as strong as some A Levels applicants, but you'll be compared to other IB students and so disadvantaged: a direct result of the inability of universities to understand the IB.

Actually, most students who apply to the top Universities have 42-43 predictions. Also, a comparison to other IB students hardly stands for much since applying IB students is a relative minority. Perhaps the biggest minority qualification, but a minority nonetheless. You have to see it in comparison with A-Level students because Universities do not (to the best of my knowledge) have any kind of quota system which dictates that a certain number of IB students have to be taken versus a certain number of A-Level ones. Besides, your 38+ point prediction only guarantees that the tutor will look at your application, anything beyond that is on the strength of it alone. If you write an unimpressive Personal Statement for example, it is highly likely you might not be called back for an interview (again, for the more competitive courses like Medicine, Engineering, etc), even if you have a predicted score of 44 (that actually happened to a girl I know).

Of course, it's necessary to get as high grades as you possibly can, a strong prediction will not disadvantage you in the slightest, but it won't exactly be a veritable or noticeable edge over someone who has a 38-39 prediction.

[emmanem]

Just to clarify - my school doesn't offer HL for languages. I could technically take the HL test, but I dont know how prepared I would be.

Thank you for all your input!

[Sandwich]

Just to clarify - my school doesn't offer HL for languages. I could technically take the HL test, but I dont know how prepared I would be. Thank you for all your input!

Well in that case you should either just not apply to courses that require a HL language OR run the risk and give it a go (but possibly suffer from not being tutored - could you find a tutor outside of school?). The whole minimum requirements deal is taken quite seriously in the UK - they'll assume that you already have the knowledge and skill that the minimum requirements dictate by the time you get to Uni, so they literally can't take people who've not got the right level already.

The alternative is perhaps to ring the University admissions department about taking a language from ab initio or seeing if they'll make an exception and have facilities to put you in a lower language bracket than others. But it's not guaranteed they'll say yes, and I definitely wouldn't apply on this basis without having spoken to them first! As it happens, at UCL they run a lot of language courses so I'd say it's worth a shot. Assuming your school offers ab initio.