Advice for Law Students

[lola 22]

hi..what is your opinion of dual undergrad degrees being offered in law and eco or law and business administration?

[Arrowhead]

hi..what is your opinion of dual undergrad degrees being offered in law and eco or law and business administration?

My response and opinion depends on a few factors:

(1) Which jurisdiction/country do you want to eventually practise law in? Which country/countries do you aim to qualify in? (Eg. US; UK; Australia; France; other)

(2) Where do you plan on studying your dual degree? The UK? USA? Australia? Elsewhere?

If you could let me know about these two points, I could probably help you out a lot more.

Cheers!

[lola 22]

hi..iam an Indian and have been an expat all my life in UAE.iam open to studying and practising anywhere.

I want to study law at undergrad level.as per my knowledge US and Canada do not offer law at this level.so i have to choose between UK,Singapore and Australia.I feel UK and Singapore are better.right now iam in grade 10...so i have time to explore what course to choose and where to do it.

i feel eco and business and law are going to be good fields to specialise in.

what do u say...

thanks in advance..

[Arrowhead]

hi..iam an Indian and have been an expat all my life in UAE.iam open to studying and practising anywhere.

I want to study law at undergrad level.as per my knowledge US and Canada do not offer law at this level.so i have to choose between UK,Singapore and Australia.I feel UK and Singapore are better.right now iam in grade 10...so i have time to explore what course to choose and where to do it.

i feel eco and business and law are going to be good fields to specialise in.

what do u say...

thanks in advance..

I had a similar conversation with another student who was considering doing a dual degree in law and another course. Now the advice varies tremendously depending entirely on where you are studying your Law degree.

If you are planning on studying Law in the UK:

I usually always discourage people from pursuing a dual degree, but it has nothing to do with a dual degree being less respected.

I think it's a fallacy that students think that doing a straight Law degree is somehow going to box them in and make them completely unemployable outside of the legal profession. Around 50% of law students never actually end up practising law, and somewhere around 60-70% of those students never even bother qualifying as lawyers, they simply jump into a different profession. A straight Law degree is very marketable and employable as it is respected as a competitive and difficult degree course to study at university.

I always discourage students from doing Business & Law/Humanities & Law/etc. courses, I find these to not really be as helpful. But this is solely based off of my personal experiences and it is very subjective.

I did a straight Law degree. Within my Law degree, I had 12 modules over three years. 7/12 of these modules were compulsory and chosen for me as they were core requirements in order to have, what they call in England, a Qualifying Law Degree, which is necessary in order to qualify for the 1-year professional course we have to do before starting our legal careers.

Anyway, back to the point, my remaining 5/12 modules during my degree were all options i.e. I could choose which modules I wanted to study outside of the core requirements. I chose to study Public International Law, Media Law, Intellectual Property Law, Information Technology Law, and write a dissertation in International Law.

At the end of my first-year, I was about ready to quit Law and never look back. I stuck it out and returned for my second-year and for the first time, I started enjoying my degree. This is because in my second-year, I had two optional courses, one of which I fell completely in love with - IT law. I then went on to the bigger IP law course alongside Media Law in third-year and fell even more in love with this very specialised area of the law.

Had I not had these options, I'd've most likely given up on Law entirely due to disinterest.

Now a friend of mine did her degree in Law & Anthropology. She thought, much like I imagine you're thinking, that this would allow her to keep her "options open", explore alternative fields, be more marketable than a straight Law student, etc. She ended up depressed. Due to the duality of her degree and the 12 module/3 year structure, she had 7 law modules - all the ones necessary for a Qualifying Law Degree - and 5 Anthropology modules. She had absolutely no choice. She never got to explore the law, and all the various options available outside of the compulsory ones and she walked away with a technically robust, but comparatively limited legal education. Most dual degree courses have very similar limitations.

Now, of course, this is a very specific example where things turned out one way. It could've completely backfired and she could've hated law and been glad that she had all those Anthropology modules.

But my point is this, doing a double subject degree makes absolutely no difference to your future legal or otherwise prospects nor abilities in the UK. Don't go for a combined honours because it seems 'safe', do it because you like both of your subjects and would enjoy them!

If you want to study a Law degree in Australia:

From my understanding of it, in order to study Law in Australia and to hope for a legal career afterwards:

(1) Be prepared for a 5-year Law degree.

(2) Almost all Australian Law degrees are combined honours (so this is something that would appeal to you), but seeing as they last for 5+ years, you have a lot of opportunities to study non-traditional subjects and the aforementioned fear of restrictiveness doesn't apply here.

(3) You should check how easily you could practise law in Australia as an Indian. The rules to practise in England & Wales are restrictive if you're an international student (I can tell you more about this if you're interested), but I don't know what they're like in Australia, so this is something worth investigating.

(4) To get into a good Australian law school (from what I know) you should be on track to getting 40+/45 points in the IB.

As for Singapore, I'm afraid my knowledge of their law schools and legal services market is very limited and you will have to research on your own about that. Sorry!

Hope that helps!

Arrowhead.

[flinquinnster]

Adding to what Arrowhead has said about studying law as an undergraduate student in Australia, you have to be prepared for at least a 5-year degree - and some combinations, particularly if you want an honours degree, will take 6 years. This does allow for more flexibility in the units that you take, however, there are still some differences depending on the dual degree choice and the university that you do combined law at. For instance, at Sydney University there is a lot of flexibility within the Arts/Law combination but not so much for Economics/Law. And yes, entry requirements are ridiculously high in Australia because they look pretty much exclusively at your IB point total to make admissions decisions, and nothing else. Most competitive universities will require 40+, and for direct entry Sydney Uni and UNSW both require 44! However, having said that, other competitive unis like ANU have a requirement of 37 - probably because that uni is in Australia's most boring city. Moreover, it is totally possible to transfer into a combined law degree program in your first or second year of a normal degree like an arts degree. Finally, most universities offer a shorter post-graduate JD program (usually 2 years full-time) that you can do - indeed, this is the only way you can do law at the University of Melbourne.

Just to direct a question to Arrowhead, what exactly are the restrictions on international students practising law in England/Wales?

EDIT: the IB score cut-offs I quoted for entry at Australian universities is for domestic students. International student cut-offs are indeed significantly lower (usually by at least 5 IB points) - but of course, the fees are higher and the Australian government won't offer you loans, and most universities have precious few scholarships for international students.

Edited April 12, 2014 by flinquinnster

[lola 22]

hi...thanks Arrowhead..your reply has set me thinking.

also i too would like to know practice requirements for intl students in UK?Also if anyone could advise me about requirements in Canada and US?

like iam planning to study law in UK.what if i want to work in US,Canada or Australia?

[flinquinnster]

hi...thanks Arrowhead..your reply has set me thinking.

also i too would like to know practice requirements for intl students in UK?Also if anyone could advise me about requirements in Canada and US?

like iam planning to study law in UK.what if i want to work in US,Canada or Australia?

I know a bit about practising law in Australia (specifically the state of New South Wales) after studying law in the UK, but I'm afraid that my knowledge is limited to the perspective of an Australian citizen (which is my personal situation).

As far as I know, no UK law degree is officially recognised as an approved degree - though it is possible to apply on a case-by-case basis to have academic study in the UK recognised. Whilst of course this is a great degree of overlap between Australian and UK law given their common roots, there are specific Australian cases to learn - and also aspects of constitutional law and land law (specifically about native title) which differ quite a lot to any of the legal systems in the UK.

To cover any gaps in knowledge then, typically there is the option to gain some kind of state-specific legal diploma - which I think takes around 1 year to complete normally. I've heard colloquially that this stage of academic study is not that much of a challenge if you've already done a law degree in the UK, but of course that depends on the uni and on each person individually. The other option is to do a postgraduate law degree in Australia - usually a JD - and that typically takes somewhere near 2 years though it can be longer/shorter.

After you've done an approved academic course of study for law in your Australian state, then you can proceed like a normal Australian law graduate into the practical stage of training to become a lawyer. There'll be some kind of practical training course administered by a university, and you'll study practical skills writing/drafting and ethics along with doing some work experience - that course lasts about 6 months at minimum. Whilst I'm not entirely sure about non-NSW states, after having fulfilled academic and practical qualifications you are then eligible to become a practising solicitor. After you've qualified as a solicitor, you can then apply additionally to the state bar association - which requires more exams and training. I think qualifications mostly transfer interstate without too much trouble.

As to non-Australian and non-New Zealand applicants, I'm not sure what the difference is in process but my impression is that it isn't that much more restrictive than for local applicants - though I really am not sure.

US/Canada is a whole different ballgame - quite a different system to either Australia or UK. I'm afraid I have no idea how qualification there works after a UK law degree, but I think it would be quite complex!

[Erudite]

Hey Arrowhead!

 

It's been agesssss!

 

Anyway, I had a question, in terms of beefing up your CV in anticipation of formal summer associate/vacation scheme programmes, what would you suggest I start stacking up on?

 

I still very much want to practise law in the UK eventually, so my focus is there, although it is hard to do that since I'm so far removed from that system at the moment.

 

I have some great opportunities to look forward to, but do you think doing an internship at a law firm in India would be enough? Or should I be trying to do something more 'interesting' like volunteering or other w/e stuff? Your thoughts, as usual, are totally respected (and needed!).

 

Thank you!!!!!

[Arrowhead]

Hey Arrowhead!

 

It's been agesssss!

 

Anyway, I had a question, in terms of beefing up your CV in anticipation of formal summer associate/vacation scheme programmes, what would you suggest I start stacking up on?

 

I still very much want to practise law in the UK eventually, so my focus is there, although it is hard to do that since I'm so far removed from that system at the moment.

 

I have some great opportunities to look forward to, but do you think doing an internship at a law firm in India would be enough? Or should I be trying to do something more 'interesting' like volunteering or other w/e stuff? Your thoughts, as usual, are totally respected (and needed!).

 

Thank you!!!!!

 

Hey Erudite, long time! How is Harvard treating you?

 

To answer your question, legal work experience anywhere (including India) would do wonders to beef up your CV. Try getting a placement at a place like Wadya Gandhi or Amarchands or something. You still have my email, right? Drop me a line and I can help you introduce you to a few people I know at those firms and they can set you up with some summer internships if you like.

 

For UK firms, things like volunteering is not all that beneficial, it helps, but it's not credited as highly as things like formal work experience. Since you're a non-law student, doing other formal work experience in consulting/accounting/etc. might benefit you loads in terms of making an arguement as to how you tried many things and settled on law eventually because it's what you enjoyed most.

 

However, all of this is very much jumping the gun and pre-emptive advice. You're still a first-year in a 4-year undergraduate degree! The time for you to apply for these formal placements is in your third-year (your penultimate year). You have loads and loads of time! So don't worry about it for now, okay?

 

Cheers!

[Siapi]

Hello.

 

I just now read through this entire thread and it has been super enlightening!

 

I've been toying around with the idea of studying Law after the IB. I'm currently at the tail-end of IB1 and need to start thinking about summer plans for work experience, etc. I'm an Indian by nationality (studying in boarding school) and I was wondering if you would please tell me more about practicing Law in the UK even though I'm an international. You mentioned there were restrictive conditions - what are they?

 

Thanks!

~ Sia

[TykeDragon]

Hello.

 

I just now read through this entire thread and it has been super enlightening!

 

I've been toying around with the idea of studying Law after the IB. I'm currently at the tail-end of IB1 and need to start thinking about summer plans for work experience, etc. I'm an Indian by nationality (studying in boarding school) and I was wondering if you would please tell me more about practicing Law in the UK even though I'm an international. You mentioned there were restrictive conditions - what are they?

 

Thanks!

~ Sia

 

Hey!

 

I'm not international myself so I can't really say from experience, just what I've heard/observed.

 

Whilst firms are not allowed to obviously discriminate against you for being international, in practical terms I would say it does have an impact to some extent because international students are a bit more of a risk/investment to them - higher fees, maybe have to sponsor you etc. I don't know much about it but it seems that this does mean that if it comes down to being between you and someone who is not international if all else is the same they'll go with the other person imo. Obviously I don't think they'd make that same choice if you're the best candidate as they would want the better option, international or not, but it's definitely worth keeping in mind that they're essentially investing in you so they'd need reason to believe you're the better investment, which puts you at a disadvantage.

 

That said, to the best of my knowledge there are schemes etc to counter this and achieve diversity in the profession by creating opportunities for international students such as SEO and Prime. Furthermore, 'CV Blind' interviews are on the rise, having been created by Clifford Chance (a Magic Circle firm) and implemented by Macfarlanes (a silver circle firm) and other firms planning to start implementing it. The objective behind this of course is to take the candidates based on their performance on the day, not info in their CVs such as their nationality, grades, university etc (whilst you may be thinking 'nationality may be more obvious than educational background....' I would like to point out the obvious, which is that appearance is not necessarily evidence of nationality of course!)

 

On this topic, this article from Summer 2014 may be of interest to you: http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/aug/22/law-firms-importance-of-diversity

 

On a separate note, don't let any of this hold you back from studying law if you have a genuine interest in it! Studying law does not mean you have to be a lawyer, heck I think nowadays it's only about 50% of trainee lawyers in london who studied a law degree, with the rest studying something else and converting to law via a one year postgrad course known as the GDL (graduate diploma in law) - which, though costly, is an option to you. So basically I'd say study what you are interested in. If the law interests you - and having researched it you think you would be happy/could cope with the vast amount of reading and essay writing that will be expected of you - go for it I would say.

 

Sorry i couldn't have given you a personal insight into the international-employability situation!

[Arrowhead]

Hello.

 

I just now read through this entire thread and it has been super enlightening!

 

I've been toying around with the idea of studying Law after the IB. I'm currently at the tail-end of IB1 and need to start thinking about summer plans for work experience, etc. I'm an Indian by nationality (studying in boarding school) and I was wondering if you would please tell me more about practicing Law in the UK even though I'm an international. You mentioned there were restrictive conditions - what are they?

 

Thanks!

~ Sia

 

Hello Sia,

 

To add onto the insightful advice that TykeDragon has already given you, as an international student myself in the UK, I do have quite a bit of experience with the system.

 

In general: Yes, it is harder to embark on a legal career when you're an international student because you need to prove/show your employers that jumping through the extra hoops and paying all that extra money to hire you is well worth the effort and expense.

 

But, this is not as impossible a task as it may seem. Alongside myself, there are several other internaitonal students who have managed to obtain employment with top law firms.

 

The most significant disadvantages for people in our situation are:

 

(1) We have to convince law firms that we aren't going to leave as soon as we finish our training as solicitors and return to our home countries, we have to show them that we intend to work with the firm for the long haul because firms train us and invest in us with the hope of benefitting from our talents for years to come. Their skepticism about our commitment can be quite difficult to overcome sometimes;

 

(2) There is a very small list of top international law firms that we can apply to. People like TykeDragon above can apply to any firm in the UK if he wants to. As a British citizen, he is entitled to that. But international students can only apply to firms that are willing to sponsor them and sponsorship is a hugely complicated and drawn out process, i.e., only the top firms with the resources for it are going to engage with it. Therefore, from the get-go, we are limited to applying to firms that are necessarily at the top end of the profession and are already hugely competitive; and

 

(3) We have to secure our jobs while we're still in uni. There is no more 'grace period' for international students after completing their degrees to kick around London looking for a job unlike every other western country which has a huge influx of international students. Immigration reform in the UK in 2010 changed all of that. This makes it necessary that by the end of your second-year/third-year at uni, you should have a job in place - not necessarily in law, but somewhere where they can sponsor your work visa, otherwise you have to leave the country. Alternatively, you could give yourself another year or two by pursuing a Master's degree and continue the job hunt if you've been unsuccessful and you have the resources to afford that option.

 

Those are really the biggest disadvantages and restrictions we face.

 

But rest assured, if you have good grades and a strong CV and you learn how to perform well in interviews, nothing will stop you from securing a job.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Arrowhead

[King112]

Hey all,

I really have no idea what I plan on doing after college, so am considering Law (just a bit).

So as of now, my plan is to do my undergrad in something like economics, or finance. Basically commerce related. Now I don't want to specialise, and am considering whether I want to do law as postgrad.
So my questions are as follows:

 

a) Can I do Law after Economics or something? Or is it necessary to do it in grad.

b) Will my subject choices allow me to take law (They are in my signature, but my HLs are English Lang/Lit, History and Economics).

c) Is law purely memorisation, or is their analysis kind of things?

 

Thanks in advance

[Just Jean]

Hello Arrowhead! Thank you for the myriad of detailed responses. 

 

I am currently nearing the end of the first half of IB (Grade 11), and I have a few questions:

 

1) I am currently averaging a grade 5 in SL Mathematics, and I am thinking of dropping to Math Studies SL to boost my overall IB score up by at least one if not two IB points. I figured that this would be helpful in the long run, and will help me achieve the solid 6's and 7's I hope to be getting when my final year of IB rolls around due to the lesser amount of time I would need to invest in math. Do you think that Math Studies will put me at a disadvantage when applying to law schools in the UK (notably: LSE, UCL, King's, Queen Mary)? None of these universities mention any math requirement on the UCAS site.

 

2) Would I be at a disadvantage without any display of debating skills in high school? I am an international student currently enrolled in boarding school and will be participating in MUN.

 

Again, thank you for your time!

[TykeDragon]

Hey all,

I really have no idea what I plan on doing after college, so am considering Law (just a bit).

So as of now, my plan is to do my undergrad in something like economics, or finance. Basically commerce related. Now I don't want to specialise, and am considering whether I want to do law as postgrad.

So my questions are as follows:

 

a) Can I do Law after Economics or something? Or is it necessary to do it in grad.

b) Will my subject choices allow me to take law (They are in my signature, but my HLs are English Lang/Lit, History and Economics).

c) Is law purely memorisation, or is their analysis kind of things?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Hey King. 

 

a) Yes you can do law after economics. The way that would work is that you would do your undergraduate degree, and after that do a GDL (Graduate Diploma in Law) which basically converts you to law (ie, catching you up on law as you didn't do a law degree.) Only thing with this, naturally, is that it'll take another year and over £10k of your money. Also, you would only really do this degree if you wanted to be a lawyer afterwards, whereas doing a law degree as your undergrad doesn't necessarily mean you have to be a lawyer as it's a very marketable degree which gives you plenty of options. I would say only really go for a law degree if you're sure you're interested in, as it is not the only way to become a lawyer and it is 3 long, difficult years so you will need genuine interest.

 

b) Yes those subjects are absolutely fine for law, in fact I'd say they're a fairly common route into law with those HLs - English for language skills/essay writing; History for lots of reading and analytical essay writing; and even economics is surprisingly good for law as it means you can think analytically and understand how economics work - 'commercial awareness' and understanding businesses and the economy is vital to be a commercial solicitor.

 

c) A lot of both. You will need to memorise case names, the principles in the cases, perhaps academic comment for essays (much like historiography for history) - basically anything which isn't in a statute book (books of the laws passed by Parliament as opposed to legal principles created by judges in courts - this is 'common law' and you need to memorise this), you can normally take statute books into exams. Furthermore, analysis is everything, just like in history. Imagine just writing a memorised timeline in your history essay - it would get you absolutely nowhere. In law exams, essay questions will require you to not just remember the law but also analyse how it has developed, critique it (how could it be improved, has it succeeded in meeting prior injustice etc?), and use the law to answer the essay question you have been given.

 

eg if your question is 'to what extent is the law relating to offer/acceptance in contract law outdated?' it would be meaningless to just say 'well currently the law is X, Y, and/or Z.' You would have to say instead, 'well on the one hand you have the postal rule, which means that in <this> situation, <this> is the outcome. It would be very true to say that this is outdated because it was created at the time to promote use of the new postal service and in the context of there not being any other, faster means of communication over distance. However, it is entirely possible to justify its continuing application by modifying when it is applicable, for example, in X situation (perhaps as in the case of A v B) the postal rule was still necessary and achieved the fair/practical outcome. Additionally, the law has in fact moved on from depending on this role, as the case of C v D outlines the legal principles in cases where modern, instantaneous forms of communication such as email or phone calls are used. Thus, as the old postal rule has been confined to playing a smaller role in the overall law of offer/acceptance than before, (going as far to say as it actually being the fairer principle in those situations), and in light of the fact that modern principles govern the modern practices, it can be submitted that the law is not outdated.'

 

(Apologies for anyone who read all that, and forgive my shady memory of contract law...) As you can see, that's basically an entire paragraph of analysing the law, memorising what the law actually is, is the bare minimum. Furthermore, problem questions in exams will give you a long factual scenario and then ask you to advise any of the part(y/ies), for these questions you need to memorise the legal principles (and maybe even the facts of some cases to draw analogies between the facts in the problem), and apply the law to the facts to determine the (probable) outcome - again this is entirely analysis, so I can't stress analysis enough.

 

Hope this helps!

[TykeDragon]

Hello Arrowhead! Thank you for the myriad of detailed responses. 

 

I am currently nearing the end of the first half of IB (Grade 11), and I have a few questions:

 

1) I am currently averaging a grade 5 in SL Mathematics, and I am thinking of dropping to Math Studies SL to boost my overall IB score up by at least one if not two IB points. I figured that this would be helpful in the long run, and will help me achieve the solid 6's and 7's I hope to be getting when my final year of IB rolls around due to the lesser amount of time I would need to invest in math. Do you think that Math Studies will put me at a disadvantage when applying to law schools in the UK (notably: LSE, UCL, King's, Queen Mary)? None of these universities mention any math requirement on the UCAS site.

 

2) Would I be at a disadvantage without any display of debating skills in high school? I am an international student currently enrolled in boarding school and will be participating in MUN.

 

Again, thank you for your time!

 

Hey!

 

1) IMO, whilst SL Mathematics is of course better given the same grade, and MAYBE at a push even the grade below, my advice would be to drop to Studies and maximise your grades. This is because these places have very high requirements and that point or two can make all the difference. Also, despite transferrable skills etc (maths showing an analytical mindset and a challenge and ability to find solutions to problems blah blah blah) it isn't really essential for law, and I might even tentatively suggest that I doubt they'll even really notice/understand the difference between you saying SL Mathematics and SL Mathematical Studies unless they know about the IB and it's ways... even those who recognise it probably won't even care if your IB score rocks. My advice - drop to studies.

 

2) Debating skills are of course great for lawyers and you would want to get any experience of this that you can - definitely go for the MUN either way! I didn't really have any debating skills on my personal statement (apart from one mock trial for history club that I probably embellished a bit...) and I would say it's less of an obstacle to lack debating skills to study a law degree, than it is when you want to apply to law firms to actually be a lawyer. For THAT, definitely arm yourself with debating experience - I did speed mooting (mock advocacy) and negotiation/dispute resolution competitions at uni to beef up my CV for law firms. Again, more prestigious unis like LSE/KCL might want to see a bit more debating experience, but I don't think it's vital/bad not to have it, like it wouldn't be fatal if the rest of your application is great. It would just help to have it there, so if you can, go for it.

 

I think the fact that you are an international student is a separate issue and I recommend you see the above posts in relation to becoming a lawyer as an international student, but for the purposes of your uni application I don't think (arrowhead may need to better advise you on this point...) being international will hinder you - especially at LSE which I think is predominantly international unless I'm wrong.... Plus, if you're international you have to pay them more so yay them! It's the entire opposite scenario to when you actually want to be hired afterwards! Lol.

 

Hope this helps!

[Arrowhead]

Hey all,

I really have no idea what I plan on doing after college, so am considering Law (just a bit).

So as of now, my plan is to do my undergrad in something like economics, or finance. Basically commerce related. Now I don't want to specialise, and am considering whether I want to do law as postgrad.

So my questions are as follows:

 

a) Can I do Law after Economics or something? Or is it necessary to do it in grad.

b) Will my subject choices allow me to take law (They are in my signature, but my HLs are English Lang/Lit, History and Economics).

c) Is law purely memorisation, or is their analysis kind of things?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Hello!

 

I think TykeDragon covered all your questions in a lot of detail, I'll just add on a little more information.

 

(a) You can do Law as a postgraduate degree with no trouble. The UK is quite unique in that Law is a three-year undergraduate degree. In Australia, law is usually a 5-year Undergraduate degree and it is expected that you study Law in conjunction with another subject, such as, Law and Philosophy or Law and Eocnomics, etc. In the US, Law is mandatorily a postgraduate degree, so you have to do an undergraduate degree in something else and then study Law for three years at Law school.

 

As to the Graduate Diploma in Law (GDL) in the UK, it is a one-year conversion course for all non-Law students to be eligible to practise Law in the UK. TykeDragon is right in saying that you only do this if you're committed to a legal career so people often think about this decision very carefully before embarking on it. Just to give you a bit of background, the GDL covers in one year all the modules of what we call in England a Qualifying Law Degree. You can read up about that in an earlier post of mine here.

 

As for the expense, it actually costs somewhere in the realm of 12-15k to the GDL at one of the notable legal education providers (University of Law; BPP Law School and Kaplan). But, a lot of GDL students apply for trainee positions at law firms/pupillage at Barrister Chambers while in the third-year of their non-Law degrees. If they are successful in obtaining a Training Contract/Pupillage then, then their future employers usually cover all their expenses for the GDL. Furthermore, there is also provision for non-Law students who are currently on the GDL to apply for employment and if they manage to obtain employment during their GDL year, the law firm/Chambers will usually reimburse them for the tuition they've spent on the GDL. So it's not exhorbitantly expensive in that sense.

 

(b) As TykeDragon explained, your subject choices are perfect for Law. I too did English History and Economics and got in everywhere just fine.

 

© Not much to add here, TykeDragon covered it quite accurately. Rest assured, while memorisation is an important part of a Law degree, it is by and far relegated to being insignificant in comparison to the need for strong analytical skills.

 

Hope that helps!

 

Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

Arrowhead.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Arrowhead

[Arrowhead]

Hello Arrowhead! Thank you for the myriad of detailed responses. 

 

I am currently nearing the end of the first half of IB (Grade 11), and I have a few questions:

 

1) I am currently averaging a grade 5 in SL Mathematics, and I am thinking of dropping to Math Studies SL to boost my overall IB score up by at least one if not two IB points. I figured that this would be helpful in the long run, and will help me achieve the solid 6's and 7's I hope to be getting when my final year of IB rolls around due to the lesser amount of time I would need to invest in math. Do you think that Math Studies will put me at a disadvantage when applying to law schools in the UK (notably: LSE, UCL, King's, Queen Mary)? None of these universities mention any math requirement on the UCAS site.

 

2) Would I be at a disadvantage without any display of debating skills in high school? I am an international student currently enrolled in boarding school and will be participating in MUN.

 

Again, thank you for your time!

 

Hello!

 

Adding onto TykeDragon's brilliant advice above:

 

(1) Drop down to Studies and ensure you get a high score overall. That is most important. Law schools in the UK only look at your HL subject choices to see if they're appropriate, your SLs exist purely and only to boost your overall point score.

 

(2) Not a disadvantage at all. Nearly every law applicant (especially to the kinds of unis you've listed) has some/tons of debating/MUN experience, it really isn't something that makes anyone stand out of the crowd at all.

 

Your Personal Statement is where you mentione your ECs and even there, ECs should be a passing thought comprising a sentence or two right at the end. Law tutors at university are more concerned with your ability to succeed in a Law degree, which is an academic study of the law involving copious amounts of reading, research and essay-writing. Instead of debating/MUN, if you spent your PS discussing a topical legal or jurisprudential issue or your musings about an aspect of the law or how you've done things that have made you an avid reader, for example, that is much more important!

 

Hope that helps!

 

Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

Arrowhead.

[Just Jean]

Thank you TykeDragon and Arrowhead! I have internal exams coming up in 2 weeks and I will be sitting the SL Math paper, but I will drop down to Studies right after so that it does not affect my application process (too much).

 

On a side note, the impression that I get from reading these posts is that most law students take A1 English at HL...

I am a first language English speaker albeit my Asian ethnicity. My IB package is as follows:

HL Biology

HL Psychology

HL Economics

SL English

SL Math (soon to be Math Studies)

SL Spanish Ab Initio

 

Will I be put at a disadvantage without higher level proficiency at English when applying to 'top-tier' universities? I'm extremely nervous about what's to come.

 

Thanks!

[Arrowhead]

Thank you TykeDragon and Arrowhead! I have internal exams coming up in 2 weeks and I will be sitting the SL Math paper, but I will drop down to Studies right after so that it does not affect my application process (too much).

 

On a side note, the impression that I get from reading these posts is that most law students take A1 English at HL...

I am a first language English speaker albeit my Asian ethnicity. My IB package is as follows:

HL Biology

HL Psychology

HL Economics

SL English

SL Math (soon to be Math Studies)

SL Spanish Ab Initio

 

Will I be put at a disadvantage without higher level proficiency at English when applying to 'top-tier' universities? I'm extremely nervous about what's to come.

 

Thanks!

 

Hey mate,

 

Not to worry about English. While English HL (whether at A1/Lit or Land & Lit or B) is preferred, it is by no means a necessity. Most Law schools want to look at your HLs and just see a healthy number of essay-based subjects. King's, particularly, now has a recommendation that applying Law students should have taken at least 2 essay-based subjects for their A2s (which is equivalent to our HLs for all intents and purposes). As you have Psychology and Economics HL, that should cover that requirement.

 

As for your proficiency in English, usually English B HL/SL is enough to demonstrate proficiency. If you are a passport-holder of a non-English-speaking country, you are expected to sit the IELTS exam. But, if you are doing English B HL/SL or above, I believe that all you need to do is write to the universities asking them if English B (or whatever level you're doing) is sufficient to fulfil their English proficiency requirements. Usually, it is. If it isn't, then you will have to sit the IELTS exam (which is piss easy - so don't worry about that at all).

 

Hope that helps!

 

Arrowhead.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Arrowhead