P2 Can we choose texts which we dont study in class?

[Internationalbaccawhat]

Or do we have to stick with what we do study in class?

Edit: Given that it is an IBO approved text

Edited August 22, 2011 by Internationalbaccawhat

[ecieee]

You can't do that unless you are doing self taught A1 (Even self taught A1 need to plan their books with IBO people).

There is probably a set book list that your teacher or the school chose for you and that is what gets entered on the IBIS - which is the site that the IB coordinator registers you. If you use a text of your chose on an exam, then I think you get marks deducted. I'm pretty sure you will be penalised in someway. As much as you want to choose your own books, you can't!

But you can do that for an English EE if you choose to do it.

Imagine how would the examiners feel if you could choose a book of your chose! They would be like OMG what is this book I haven't even heard of it!!! I was told that the examiners read the books that are entered on the IBIS prior to marking the P2 works from certain schools so that they have a good familiarity of the text and thus can mark well

If I could choose the books, I will choose Harry potter series and perhaps short stories of Agatha Christie. Maybe some Japanese books (translated) cos they are cool and probably some sci-fi or Vampire books.

Edited August 22, 2011 by ecieee

[Internationalbaccawhat]

What if the book is well and truly on the IB accepted list? I want to do The Metamorphosis by Franz Kafka and I'm sure it's on the IBO approved list.

If marks are deducted, then from what could they deduct me? There is no "be a good boy" criteria lol

Edited August 22, 2011 by Internationalbaccawhat

[ecieee]

Okay, even though the books may be on the 'list' , still if it isn't what your school's doing, you're not suppose to do it.

I think there are certain rules that the markers follow when they mark your work but I'm very very certain that you will lose marks.

Please don't go and risk this!! You can't afford to lose any marks on the exams! Try to gain marks, not lose marks!

My teacher is a world lit marker and she said that she penalises 1 mark or something on one of the criteria. She told us as a joke that someone should write about Harry Potter in the P2 exam because she is curious as to how the markers will respond!

I suggest you talk to your teacher about it.

[Internationalbaccawhat]

Yeah, that seems like the best thing to do at this point. Thanks for the help

[Arrowhead]

Are you trying to use The Metamorphosis as one of your World Lit texts? In any case, if you haven't covered the book in class, you cannot use it, its part of the rules. The IB has a prescribed list of subjects and schools pick books from that list for certain sections of the syllabus. You cannot go out of that because no matter how well you think can analyse a book without studying it in class, you're still not allowed to do it. Use the books you've been told to use. Why wouldn't you want to use them anyway?

[ecieee]

Are you trying to use The Metamorphosis as one of your World Lit texts? In any case, if you haven't covered the book in class, you cannot use it, its part of the rules. The IB has a prescribed list of subjects and schools pick books from that list for certain sections of the syllabus. You cannot go out of that because no matter how well you think can analyse a book without studying it in class, you're still not allowed to do it. Use the books you've been told to use. Why wouldn't you want to use them anyway?

Arrowhead, internationalbaccawhat has made clear that he is talking about using different books for his P2 exam (header of the question). You actually can use different books - there is nothing stopping you from writing on a different book. You will simply lose marks, but it really is like -2 marks or something. Also, there are tonnes of reasons why a student will not want to use the texts that the school selected. I mean TONNES.

Edited August 22, 2011 by ecieee

[Arrowhead]

Arrowhead, internationalbaccawhat has made clear that he is talking about using different books for his P2 exam (header of the question). You actually can use different books - there is nothing stopping you from writing on a different book. You will simply lose marks, but it really is like -2 marks or something. Also, there are tonnes of reasons why a student will not want to use the texts that the school selected. I mean TONNES.

Oh, right, should've seen that.

Actually there is a lot stopping you from using a different book. For starters, for the Paper 2 exam you have a particular genre to study, be it poems, plays, novels, or short stories. Say you have novels and you've been given 4 texts, but you want to use a fifth. That goes against the very question because if you read the Paper 2 questions, they clearly say, "using two or more texts that you have studied." Of course, my teacher did tell us that its okay to make a reference to a book outside of the syllabus, but that is not recommended, even then, only a reference. You cannot use it as one of your main texts. Also, your school isn't trying to hurt you, at least not intentionally. The fact these books are from the IB prescribed list mean that they have literary value and have chunky bits to analyse. You can use them with a little bit of effort.

[Internationalbaccawhat]

eciee is right, this is for paper 2.

The reason for my choice is this: in class, we have studied 3 texts- Cloudstreet, Remembering Babylon and Perfume. I don't want to use Cloudstreet or Babylon because I only really enjoyed Perfume and any links I could make to the other two would be superficial and boring (they are quite different thematically). Besides, Cloudstreet is waaay too long and Metamorphosis is short, interesting and links with Perfume far better than the other two.

[Internationalbaccawhat]

Arrowhead, internationalbaccawhat has made clear that he is talking about using different books for his P2 exam (header of the question). You actually can use different books - there is nothing stopping you from writing on a different book. You will simply lose marks, but it really is like -2 marks or something. Also, there are tonnes of reasons why a student will not want to use the texts that the school selected. I mean TONNES.

Oh, right, should've seen that.

Actually there is a lot stopping you from using a different book. For starters, for the Paper 2 exam you have a particular genre to study, be it poems, plays, novels, or short stories. Say you have novels and you've been given 4 texts, but you want to use a fifth. That goes against the very question because if you read the Paper 2 questions, they clearly say, "using two or more texts that you have studied." Of course, my teacher did tell us that its okay to make a reference to a book outside of the syllabus, but that is not recommended, even then, only a reference. You cannot use it as one of your main texts. Also, your school isn't trying to hurt you, at least not intentionally. The fact these books are from the IB prescribed list mean that they have literary value and have chunky bits to analyse. You can use them with a little bit of effort.

I will have studied Metamorphosis, just not in class

[ChikkyD]

Are you trying to use The Metamorphosis as one of your World Lit texts? In any case, if you haven't covered the book in class, you cannot use it, its part of the rules. The IB has a prescribed list of subjects and schools pick books from that list for certain sections of the syllabus. You cannot go out of that because no matter how well you think can analyse a book without studying it in class, you're still not allowed to do it. Use the books you've been told to use. Why wouldn't you want to use them anyway?

Arrowhead, internationalbaccawhat has made clear that he is talking about using different books for his P2 exam (header of the question). You actually can use different books - there is nothing stopping you from writing on a different book. You will simply lose marks, but it really is like -2 marks or something. Also, there are tonnes of reasons why a student will not want to use the texts that the school selected. I mean TONNES.

As ecieee said, you will only lose 1-2 marks maximum. However, why would you really want to disadvantage yourself like that? I suggest you try and find links, and dig deeper than the superficial analysis anybody could come up with. I hate most of my P2 works but I'm not about to go crazy and write a comparative on LOTR or something

[dessskris]

if you want, you can try to persuade your teacher to make your class study that text, if it isn't too late.

[ecieee]

Arrowhead, internationalbaccawhat has made clear that he is talking about using different books for his P2 exam (header of the question). You actually can use different books - there is nothing stopping you from writing on a different book. You will simply lose marks, but it really is like -2 marks or something. Also, there are tonnes of reasons why a student will not want to use the texts that the school selected. I mean TONNES.

Oh, right, should've seen that.

Actually there is a lot stopping you from using a different book. For starters, for the Paper 2 exam you have a particular genre to study, be it poems, plays, novels, or short stories. Say you have novels and you've been given 4 texts, but you want to use a fifth. That goes against the very question because if you read the Paper 2 questions, they clearly say, "using two or more texts that you have studied." Of course, my teacher did tell us that its okay to make a reference to a book outside of the syllabus, but that is not recommended, even then, only a reference. You cannot use it as one of your main texts. Also, your school isn't trying to hurt you, at least not intentionally. The fact these books are from the IB prescribed list mean that they have literary value and have chunky bits to analyse. You can use them with a little bit of effort.

Metamorphosis is from the prescribed list - it's a well known one too! - and thus there is no doubt that it has the 'contents'. I agree with your concern that it's against the 'rules' but if internationalbaccawhat really wants to use it, then why not! If he finds it very hard to link the texts that he is studying, then maybe it is better for him to ditch the texts from the school, and ACE the essay with a different text that he knows back to front.

eciee is right, this is for paper 2.

The reason for my choice is this: in class, we have studied 3 texts- Cloudstreet, Remembering Babylon and Perfume. I don't want to use Cloudstreet or Babylon because I only really enjoyed Perfume and any links I could make to the other two would be superficial and boring (they are quite different thematically). Besides, Cloudstreet is waaay too long and Metamorphosis is short, interesting and links with Perfume far better than the other two.

Perfume is a brilliant novel (although I read it in Korea I'm pretty sure that the English versions are equally or if better?) and if you think you can pull off a really good essay, have a go! But, really. 1-2 marks do mean quite a lot. It's English A1 - markers are looking for little petty things that to mark you down on. Talk to your teacher about it!

Are you trying to use The Metamorphosis as one of your World Lit texts? In any case, if you haven't covered the book in class, you cannot use it, its part of the rules. The IB has a prescribed list of subjects and schools pick books from that list for certain sections of the syllabus. You cannot go out of that because no matter how well you think can analyse a book without studying it in class, you're still not allowed to do it. Use the books you've been told to use. Why wouldn't you want to use them anyway?

Arrowhead, internationalbaccawhat has made clear that he is talking about using different books for his P2 exam (header of the question). You actually can use different books - there is nothing stopping you from writing on a different book. You will simply lose marks, but it really is like -2 marks or something. Also, there are tonnes of reasons why a student will not want to use the texts that the school selected. I mean TONNES.

As ecieee said, you will only lose 1-2 marks maximum. However, why would you really want to disadvantage yourself like that? I suggest you try and find links, and dig deeper than the superficial analysis anybody could come up with. I hate most of my P2 works but I'm not about to go crazy and write a comparative on LOTR or something

Hahaha yeah. We really can't afford to use that 1-2 marks because that can change our fortune! 1 mark is all it needs to make a difference from a 6 to 7, or a 5 to a 6. That said, I still do not want to use the color purple and the short stories because I just don't like them. I LOVE things fall apart because I just do and I also like the themes in the Heart of Darkness, so I'm gonna focus on the two texts.

[Internationalbaccawhat]

if you want, you can try to persuade your teacher to make your class study that text, if it isn't too late.

haha I highly doubt that my suggestion would be met with a positive response knowing my teacher, more likely a slap

[ecieee]

if you want, you can try to persuade your teacher to make your class study that text, if it isn't too late.

I think my teacher will be offended if I say that to her That's why I didn't say it.

Good luck to you Internationalbaccawhat!

[Arrowhead]

The reason for my choice is this: in class, we have studied 3 texts- Cloudstreet, Remembering Babylon and Perfume. I don't want to use Cloudstreet or Babylon because I only really enjoyed Perfume and any links I could make to the other two would be superficial and boring (they are quite different thematically). Besides, Cloudstreet is waaay too long and Metamorphosis is short, interesting and links with Perfume far better than the other two.

See, to me, that just makes you come across as someone who hasn't worked hard enough. You're not the first person to dislike some of the books you've been told to work with. I had Dancing at Lughnasa and The Lion and the Jewel. I hated, nay loathed, those two texts. The only one I liked was The Visit, but I still used Lughnasa in my Paper 2, even though I would've been much happier linking it with Hamlet or another Shakespearean play. When you get texts you don't like, that's just an invitation to analyse them more and work harder. The fact you don't like them, means nothing. When you're at University, you often have to read stuff or do research for papers you probably hate, but you don't just change the topic and do something else you find more interesting. Its just one of those things you have to do. Both the books you don't like have a lot of matter in them, its not like they're devoid of literary merit, read through them like you've been trained to in the IB and analyse them, no matter how much ever you don't want to. If you make an effort, you won't ever have to go beyond these books.

Also in The Metamosphosis, brevity is one of the reasons it is notoriously difficult to analyse. Every time one reads that novel/novella a bunch of different meanings come out of it. I would be extremely hesitant to use that book in a Paper 2 setting because it is a tough book with tons of matter in subtext, most of which, an amateur like me could not even begin to comprehend. If you're worried about being superficial with the books you have, trust me, very few people in the IB (none that I know of) can read The Metamorphosis and not come across as superficial, because that book is so deep, its unbelievable.

Metamorphosis is from the prescribed list - it's a well known one too! - and thus there is no doubt that it has the 'contents'. I agree with your concern that it's against the 'rules' but if internationalbaccawhat really wants to use it, then why not! If he finds it very hard to link the texts that he is studying, then maybe it is better for him to ditch the texts from the school, and ACE the essay with a different text that he knows back to front.

The chances of him acing the test after using a book not on his school's list are slim to none. Its anyway very difficult to ace an English essay, above and beyond that, you're setting yourself up to lose 2 points, which means a 7 is already difficult to grasp. Furthermore, him not having studied that book in class, and having analysed it on his own time, is just not going to cut it. Not for a book like The Metamorphosis. Do it if you want to, its your exam and your choice, but in my honest opinion, this has disaster written all over it.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Arrowhead

[dessskris]

I agree with your concern that it's against the 'rules' but if internationalbaccawhat really wants to use it, then why not! If he finds it very hard to link the texts that he is studying, then maybe it is better for him to ditch the texts from the school, and ACE the essay with a different text that he knows back to front.

you realise it's against the rules but you still do it. no offence but it's stupid IMO! I do not know how exactly the examiners would respond to this and whether the teachers actually submit the list of works studied to the examiners; but if the list of works studied is submitted then I think one would fail their paper 2 essay if they use a work that is not studied in class. and I don't think one can ace their paper 2 if the work they're discussing is not allowed because they don't study it in class, because it's like talking about turtles when you're asked to talk about tortoises.

any links I could make to the other two would be superficial and boring (they are quite different thematically)

it's either your teacher is new to teaching A1 and stupid, or you do not know your texts well. your teacher must choose works that "enable relevant comparisons to be made based on aspects such as the content of works, themes, styles and techniques, and the various approaches of different authors." (Language A1 Syllabus page 18). you don't have no excuse now.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Desy Glau

[Internationalbaccawhat]

it's either your teacher is new to teaching A1 and stupid, or you do not know your texts well. your teacher must choose works that "enable relevant comparisons to be made based on aspects such as the content of works, themes, styles and techniques, and the various approaches of different authors." (Language A1 Syllabus page 18). you don't have no excuse now.

My teacher isn't new or stupid and frankly neither am I (hopefully ..lol). Okay, I may have exaggerated when I said the links between Perfume and the others were 'superficial', the links are there and I can make them. However,I find that analysing the common elements in Perfume and Metamorphosis is a far more stimulating intellectual pursuit- it has philosophical significance to me personally. The three texts were chosen because Cloudstreet and Babylon link very well, much better relative to Perfume in my opinion- so to reiterate, my teacher isn't stupid. Next time, please don't assume so hastily

Oh, and I never intended to make an excuse- this is a matter of personal preference and interest.

See, to me, that just makes you come across as someone who hasn't worked hard enough. You're not the first person to dislike some of the books you've been told to work with. I had Dancing at Lughnasa and The Lion and the Jewel. I hated, nay loathed, those two texts. The only one I liked was The Visit, but I still used Lughnasa in my Paper 2, even though I would've been much happier linking it with Hamlet or another Shakespearean play. When you get texts you don't like, that's just an invitation to analyse them more and work harder. The fact you don't like them, means nothing. When you're at University, you often have to read stuff or do research for papers you probably hate, but you don't just change the topic and do something else you find more interesting. Its just one of those things you have to do. Both the books you don't like have a lot of matter in them, its not like they're devoid of literary merit, read through them like you've been trained to in the IB and analyse them, no matter how much ever you don't want to. If you make an effort, you won't ever have to go beyond these books.

Also in The Metamosphosis, brevity is one of the reasons it is notoriously difficult to analyse. Every time one reads that novel/novella a bunch of different meanings come out of it. I would be extremely hesitant to use that book in a Paper 2 setting because it is a tough book with tons of matter in subtext, most of which, an amateur like me could not even begin to comprehend. If you're worried about being superficial with the books you have, trust me, very few people in the IB (none that I know of) can read The Metamorphosis and not come across as superficial, because that book is so deep, its unbelievable.

The chances of him acing the test after using a book not on his school's list are slim to none. Its anyway very difficult to ace an English essay, above and beyond that, you're setting yourself up to lose 2 points, which means a 7 is already difficult to grasp. Furthermore, him not having studied that book in class, and having analysed it on his own time, is just not going to cut it. Not for a book like The Metamorphosis. Do it if you want to, its your exam and your choice, but in my honest opinion, this has disaster written all over it.

Well you probably are right in that I haven't worked hard enough in the first two texts, but that's because they simply didn't resonate with me as much. You may think "argh, this guy is slack and childish and will face problems in Uni" but hey, I commonly place personal satisfaction over outcome, achievement and use- it is simply the way I see things. You seem take a more pragmatic approach to life while my worldview is more Epicurean, we are different and that is fine.

Nevertheless, all of your insights have been helpful and I appreciate your input (all of you)

Edited August 22, 2011 by Internationalbaccawhat

[dessskris]

However,I find that analysing the common elements in Perfume and Metamorphosis is a far more stimulating intellectual pursuit- it has philosophical significance to me personally.

cool, you can write an EE on that if you want. not sure, though. I heard texts we studied in A1 can't be used for EE but anyway...

just try to talk to your teacher, really. my teacher is really nice and my class can joke around with her, so if I were in your position I can try to joke and ask, maybe she'd agree.

[ecieee]

I agree with your concern that it's against the 'rules' but if internationalbaccawhat really wants to use it, then why not! If he finds it very hard to link the texts that he is studying, then maybe it is better for him to ditch the texts from the school, and ACE the essay with a different text that he knows back to front.

you realise it's against the rules but you still do it. no offence but it's stupid IMO! I do not know how exactly the examiners would respond to this and whether the teachers actually submit the list of works studied to the examiners; but if the list of works studied is submitted then I think one would fail their paper 2 essay if they use a work that is not studied in class. and I don't think one can ace their paper 2 if the work they're discussing is not allowed because they don't study it in class, because it's like talking about turtles when you're asked to talk about tortoises.

any links I could make to the other two would be superficial and boring (they are quite different thematically)

it's either your teacher is new to teaching A1 and stupid, or you do not know your texts well. your teacher must choose works that "enable relevant comparisons to be made based on aspects such as the content of works, themes, styles and techniques, and the various approaches of different authors." (Language A1 Syllabus page 18). you don't have no excuse now.

Just to make clear, you do not fail the exam/ English simply for using a wrong text. You lose 1-2 marks at the maximum, and that is it. I'm not clear as to if it is 1 mark or 2 mark penalty, but for WL you can absolutely write about Harry Potter and only lose 1 mark. I know this because my teacher is an IB English A1 SL/HL marker.