Is Maths a prime factor in Physics or otherwise?

[McGinty]

My college had a ToK forum the other day about the relevance of Mathematics and Physics. Interestingly, one of the panelists showed a cartoon strip showing a continuum of several related fields.

From left to right,it is said that Sociology is only applied Psychology, Biology is only applied Chemistry, Physics stands on its own and further on the right is Mathematics standing independently.(As i could recall, apologies if there's any mistake)

So, i now open this discussion about Mathematics and Physics.

Another interesting point to note is, one of my college mates stated that there is pseudo-science, but there isn't any pseudo-mathematics. How true is that?

[Angelos13]

From what I've come to understand of both Physics and Mathematics, I would say that they are probably the most tightly related subjects and areas of knowledge. First of all, trying to observe, analyze, understand or solve anything in Physics is impossible without Mathematics. Simply saying that a particle is very fast means absolutely nothing if you do not talk about the numerical value of its temperature. Also, Physics is largely responsible for the existence of Mathematics. Many sectors of Mathematics (e.g. Calculus) have been invented just to explain a notion in Physics. Of course, the aforementioned aren't the only bonds between the two, but you get the idea. Physics leads to Mathematics and vice versa in my opinion.

[sweetnsimple786]

I agree with Angelos13

Also, how is Biology only applied Chemistry?

I was just giving some feedback about my classes to my IB coordinator, and I told him how interconnected Physics, Biology, and Chemistry are. I don't know how you can be an expert in one field without a solid grasp on the other two subjects.

[Scade]

To a large extent physics is applied mathematics, but one has to remember that mathematics deals with the abstract and physics with the particular. And besides, isn't math just an application of philosophy ?

[Sandwich]

I'd argue with that one xP Philosophy =/= mathematics. Maths is 'out there' in the world. Like how they keep finding 'pi' in the spirals on snail shells and in leaves, or whatever they get up to. Although maths is a human construct, it is a construct based on things we can see, at the very least to begin with before it became somewhat more abstract.

Philosophy, in my opinion, is based entirely on us. Without us, there would be no philosophy and no potential philosophy. Without us there would be no mathematics, but there would still be potential mathematics and mathematical relationships. So many things about the universe can be translated into mathematical relationships and mathematical constants that it's almost a property of them. Philosophy is exclusively human.

[sweetnsimple786]

this is pretty irrelevant, but I just noticed the pun in the title of this thread hehe

[Redstar]

I think the comic strip that McGinty is referring to is this one: http://xkcd.com/435/

Anyways, I agree mostly with Angelos. Physics depends almost entirely on mathematics. Even though you can see physical relationships for yourself without the need of mathematics (e.g. the greater the mass of an object, the greater its weight, because I can see that I require more force to lift it), you will never be able to apply these physical relationships to make any specific predictions of what can happen without the use of mathematics.

Mathematics, on the other hand, needs Physics (and other fields of study, such as economics, biology, chemisry, etc.) in the sense that what good is it to go through an entire calculation and end up with a number if this number has no meaning? For example, if we use calculus to find the gradient of a graph at a point and the answer is 2, what meaning does this number have? Sure, its the gradient, but unless we know what the graph is plotting then the gradient is just a number that is of no practical use to us. This is where Physics comes in, because lets say that the graph is distance over time, then the gradient we calculated now has a meaning. It is no longer an abstract number, it now represents speed.