What the bleep do we know?

[irenesme]

Does any one else watch this movie in their TOK class?

Its very interesting. According to the movie, everything that we know as our reality is only there because that is what we are able to perceive. Supposedly this perception is conditioned and affected by the way we have raised and everything that is in our environment. [b]BUT[/b], if it is something SOO unfamiliar to us and doesn't fit in with what we already know as reality then we can't perceive it at all.

One of the examples they used was about the Native American in America. Not one of them were able to see the ships of Christopher Colombus coming in to their shores because it was something so foreign and strange that they had no way of being able to perceive it. It was only after the chief spent days observing the ripples in the waves being caused by the ships that he was able to see the ships and then he explaned it to the rest and they were able to see it because they trusted their chief.... hmmm weird.

There was also something about how our eyes are only able to process 2,000 bits of information when our brain can process 400 billion. Yet, all we are able to perceive is 2,000 bits. So our brain has the capacity to process all of reality but we would never be able to because we would always be limited to what we see.

There was just a lot of interesting and thought-provoking information in that movie.

Quantum physics was mentioned a lot. Can anyone explain some of the theories behind quantum physics?

[cixelsyD]

Ya, I've watched it, but not in ToK.. =P
I think quantum physics is (partially?) about the probability of events occuring.. for example, according to quantum physics, an apple can float in mid-air because if all the particles that make up the apple all move upwards at the same time, the apple would jump... but the probability of all the particles moving in the same direction at the same time is so slim that it never happens.
I think it was in that movie that they also talked bout sub-atomic particles going to alternate dimensions for short periods of time. Again, if all the particles move to alternate dimensions at the same time, then the object would dissapear, but the probability, again, is so slim it almost never happens.
I think they also mentioned something about how we can control the probability of events occuring by believing? I don't remember the movie too well any more, but somehow I think they came to that conclusion

Edited August 19, 2008 by cixelsyD

[moneyfaery]

I found it quite incredible at first, but then they went overboard and it became just unbelievable. Although Wikipedia isn't the best source, it's supposed to be "neutral" and so may offer you some perspective beyond the movie (see [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_Bleep_Do_We_Know!%3F#New_Age_community_reaction"][u]this[/u][/url]).

You may also want to read about [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JZ_Knight"][u]JZ Knight[/u][/url] (the old woman in that film) and her [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramtha%27s_School_of_Enlightenment"][u]cult[/u][/url] from which the directors and most/all of the characters in the film stem (no, not biased at all...).

IMO, what the film claimed may be true, but without credible/unbiased sources (the woman claiming things doesn't count since I could claim things too) and combined with the stakeholders that gain from this film (earned $10M+ at the boxoffice), it simply can't be taken seriously and certainly not word-for-word.

[quote]The four cornerstones of Ramtha's philosophy are:
1. The statement 'You are God'
2. The directive to make known the unknown
3. The concept that consciousness and energy create the nature of reality
4. The challenge to conquer yourself[/quote]
Pretty much sums up the movie. That's more Ramtha's philosophy than quantum physics if you ask me.

[quote]When Knight claims she is channelling Ramtha, she speaks only English, although in an accented and sometimes simplistic way and [b]has expressed confusion about modern items[/b] ("What is a carrot?", "What say you in this silver chariot?" directed at a woman in a wheelchair ['Ramtha', 1986]) [b]while also professing intimate knowledge of worldly affairs and conspiracies[/b]. During the channeling she behaves 'manly', with her chest puffed up talking in a deeper and stern voice, and often seen smoking a pipe.[/quote]
Either the knowledge of worldly affairs/conspiracies pertains to the world 35k years ago, as that's when Ramtha existed or it's contradicting.

[quote]James Randi, a famous skeptic, criticised JZ Knight for charging people $700 to attend a retreat on how to become rich and suggested that the advice was likely on how to fake channelling [5].[/quote]
It's also interesting to note she had seminars on [i]how to get rich[/i] (costing $700 each, pretty good way to get rich, IMO ) and not [i]how to find/free yourself/your true potential using the theories of quantum physics[/i].

Like I said, Wiki isn't the best source, but at least there's more than one biased organization editing it, and I'd take Wiki's word over JZ Knight's any day. The fact that the film bent and misrepresented the theories of quantum physics to make it more reliable doesn't help its credibility.

[b]However[/b], it [i]is[/i] a good exercise in evaluating the bias of something based on its stakeholders and sources.

Edit: the first part of the film was very thought-provoking though. The example about the Indian chiefs isn't true but it could have the underlying message of "what you don't want to see, you can't see". The example about the brain/eyes could be true (not sure about the actual numbers though). We are limited to what we see (most of us)... seeing is believing.

Edited August 27, 2008 by moneyfaery

[Mr. Shiver]

Yeah, a lot of the stuff in that movie was total pseudoscientific bull****, like those water crystals being affected by words. You'd have to be really gullible to fall for that.

They basically took the Heisenberg principle of the uncertainty about the exact location of subatomic particles, and used it way out of context to eventually propose that counsciousness can alter reality. Yeah, try telling that to a farmer in a developing country, or anyone else who's unable to question their existence because of the external realities of social and economic inequality.

Yes, "mind over matter" is no secret. Humans have been capable of defying odds in many cirumstances. But it's very easy to be fooled, by people who look like they know what they're talking about, into thinking that we're all magicians unaware of our powers, and setting ourselves up for a painful reality check.

[quote][b]THE WARRIOR RETURNS[/b]

Chip Denman sends us to www.ramtha.com, where J.Z. Knight – of one-time “Ramtha” fame – is apparently running low on money, and is now offering her fans a plan to get rich… As part of that plan, her blurb tells the suckers:

"Fabulous wealth is a by-product of extraordinary mind. Learn the secret of fabulous wealth from Ms. Knight, who has created fabulous wealth in her own life. Open to the public. $700."

Hey, that’s the whole secret right there, folks! Charge folks $700 to tell them how to do what you just did to them!

I’ll bet that J.Z. tells her audience that the secret of getting fabulously wealthy is to (a) come up with a hare-brained story – an Atlantean warrior, blue octopuses in volcanoes, or magical pyramids will do – (b) tour around doing funny voices and dropping the words “quantum” and “vibrations” a lot, then when you run out of money again, offer to teach other people how to do the same scheme, in order to get rich again… And charge $700.

She’ll fill the auditorium…[/quote]
James Randi.

[quote name='moneyfaery' post='22814' date='Aug 27 2008, 09:18 AM'][b]However[/b], it [i]is[/i] a good exercise in evaluating the bias of something based on its stakeholders and sources. [/quote]

Edited August 27, 2008 by Mr. Shiver

[moneyfaery]

[quote name='Mr. Shiver' post='22831' date='Aug 27 2008, 01:30 PM']like those water crystals being affected by words. You'd have to be really gullible to fall for that.[/quote]
Halfway through the film, I was like, "WTF is this poo".

[quote]...early references in the film to quantum physics are not followed through, leading to a confused message[/quote]
I swear the only message I got out of it was... YOU ARE BEING STALKED BY A CREEPY, UNKNOWN ENTITY (possibly Atlantean). How the film progressed from "quantum physics" to stalking, I have no idea.

And I read that quote already.

Edit: I am allowed to make typos every once in a while. You just typo'd your tags too!

Edited August 27, 2008 by moneyfaery

[Leen]

It's very similar to The Secret. The secret was easier to follow but what the bleep do we know has alot more information, and is better for a TOK lesson than anything else.

We watched it in a TOK lesson once, it was quite interesting. Certainly disrupts your view on perception and whatnot.