buddah Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 Hi, I am new to this thread and was wondering if anyone could help give me some ideas for this topic - I am currently working on my draft and am lacking ideas. (if a thread has already been made for this topic please let me know)Thanks Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwich Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 Nope you're on the money, this is the first thread. However remember people are here to help you as distinct from doing your work for you. I'll give you some hints as to how to start coming up with your own ideas, but until you post some ideas for us to critique and help you expand on, won't feed them to you! It's YOUR diploma, after all so you should start by putting some work in.This is actually a very easy question and the clue as to where to start is in the title (also the answers are blindingly obvious): can you think of any situation in the natural or human sciences where disagreement between two people/groups/results/ideas has led to further investigation and therefore acquisition of MORE knowledge than if everybody had agreed on things in the first place?Hint 1: literally almost every established theory in the natural sciences has been reached and bashed out in this manner, so all you have to do is apply your brain to this to come up with loads of content for your TOK essay.Hint 2: you may wish to consider using human sciences as a contrast (although obviously it too contains elements of truth from the question, the whole point of the TOK essay is to come up with arguments and counterarguments, the latter of which will be much easier to identify in human sciences).Hopefully you'll find that if you've comprehended the question and just thought of a few examples, the ideas will start flowing and suddenly the answer will seem a lot easier than you initially thought. Also you will have reached them on your own 6 Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddah Posted November 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 ahh I see how it works. Not a problem, the IB has prepared me to do work on my own! Before I start looking, just confirming if I am correct:Natural Sciences is like physics, chemistry, biology, astronomy etc..? Human sciences is like psychology, economics, sociology? (I will post later in the week with ideas I have found) Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
morry99 Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Hello. Can you please give examples for the counter arguments? In what ways does disagreement not aid pursuit of knowledge?How do we use the ways of knowing in the essay? Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom194 Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Is anyone know what is the knowledge issues for this topic ? Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
citizenoftheuniverse Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Disagreement causes adversity to those who are trying to pursue a new idea which is rejected by the mainstream. In ancient times, you could be killed for expressing ideas counter to what the ruler/religion said. Thus, disagreement, in the worst case, could get you killed, and thus would not help the pursuit of knowledge at all. 2 Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maereth Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 @Citizenoftheuniverse sorry don't know why but your example with killing sounds funny ;d anyway I disagree. The disagreement you wrote about - with mainstream - is a reason for someone in the future to dig into the topic and figure out what it was about I think. But maybe you're right or maybe it can be considered from both points of view ;D Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norsul Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Does anyone have any ideas on some kind of a non-cliche example to use in this one? I'm pretty sure that examples like Newton vs Einstein or Einstein vs Bohr are going to be extremely overused. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lena Q. Posted November 24, 2012 Report Share Posted November 24, 2012 I selected this title, and am revising it while currently writing another title in case I end up being displeased with it. I have a very strong argument for the Natural Sciences, but I'm struggling with coming up with a solid argument in the Human Sciences, due to my lack of study in that area. I was hoping someone could lend some insight into that area, and also educate me as to whether Politics would be considered a Human Science. Thank you very much in advance. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubberChicken Posted November 27, 2012 Report Share Posted November 27, 2012 I selected this title, and am revising it while currently writing another title in case I end up being displeased with it. I have a very strong argument for the Natural Sciences, but I'm struggling with coming up with a solid argument in the Human Sciences, due to my lack of study in that area. I was hoping someone could lend some insight into that area, and also educate me as to whether Politics would be considered a Human Science. Thank you very much in advance.I'm currently having the same issue as well after changing my chosen prescribed title to this one. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simone Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Hey! I'm writing my prescribed title right now, and want to get a second opinion on some of my ideas, just to make sure that I’m actually on to something. I also have a few questions.Here they are:-Disagreement usually occurs on two levels; a moral level and an ethical level (or somewhere in between that spectrum). How this question is answered (and subsequently, the counterarguments) depend on how you define "disagreement."-Disagreement on a moral level tends to rely on emotion or perception as a way of knowing, thus making the spread of knowledge more difficult.-Disagreement on an ethical level aids the spread of ideas without the emotional blockage, meaning that it is easier to spread knowledge and progress (even if it is through compromise). -Both the natural and human sciences require some sort of justification, but that justification easily changes between the two types of science.For the moral level example, I was thinking of talking about the current elections that just happened in the states. Being somewhat liberal in a rather conservative society, I have loads of stories about super republicans/whackjobs. I also could talk about the creationism argument. I have loads on that. This would also be where I talk about the human sciences. Still not sure about the natural science/ethical example. Any suggestions?And are the two types of disagreement enough of a counterexample against each other that I don'’t need any other counterexample? Or do I need to have counterexamples within both types of disagreement separately?One more thing: Do I have to talk about both types of science in both types of disagreement? Or since I plan on claiming that human sciences tend to be more of a moral thing and natural sciences more of an ethical thing, can I just talk about each type of science in their respective disagreement? Is that claim not really worth even making?That's it. Am I missing anything?Thanks for the help, by the way. I'm new-ish here, and have difficulty keeping things short. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB-Adam Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) Crap, just realized that economics is a social science, but isn't it also a human science as well? "Economics is the science which studies human behavior as a relationship between given ends and scarce means which have alternative uses." - Lionel Robbins Edited December 6, 2012 by IB-Adam Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddah Posted December 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 Could we get some help on this topic please from admins there are a few questions here ! Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Giggs Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 I have a question. Do I need to both argument and counter-argument for each AoW separately, or may I use Natural Sciences as my main arguments and just counter-argument with Human Sciences? Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RileyK94 Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 would politics be considered a human science? Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateDrop Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 I have a question. Do I need to both argument and counter-argument for each AoW separately, or may I use Natural Sciences as my main arguments and just counter-argument with Human Sciences?My TOK teacher teaches us the argument, counterargument route, because TOK is basically a great big question of how do we know what we know. So to get higher marks it would be easier to do this by looking at both the pros and cons, fallacies and strengths of your AOK or WOK. would politics be considered a human science?Yes, politics is considered a human science. Human sciences try to understand human nature more by studying human behavior, society and social relationships. Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norsul Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) To anyone who is confused about what IB considers a 'human science'. Human sciences are meant to investigate and understand human behavior and the human nature. Examples are: psychology, sociology, anthropology, law, economics and politics.In my opinion the IB DOES NOT consider history and literature as a human sciences, but as a separate areas of knowledge. Edited December 17, 2012 by norsul Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norsul Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 (edited) I think I found a nice example of how disagreement aids the pursuit of knowledge in the HUMAN sciences - law. The whole point of the system is that the accuser and the accused (don't know the proper names for these, but you know what I mean) are allowed to argue, and this argument helps the judge or the jury to build up knowledge of the situation and come out with a verdict.EDIT: Nevermind, this was a horrible idea. Sorry for posting this. Edited December 21, 2012 by norsul Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jane swiss Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 can disagreement strengthen conversation as in law(human sciences)? Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jane swiss Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Hi everyone. Im doing tok essay 2013 question 1 and am about to do my first draft. i have to submit my 1st draft by early january. i have few problems in continuing my essay. first of all, based on my own personal understanding, the question 1 is about how disagreement can help us to gain knowledge? after gone through short discussion with my friends, they have different views on this topic. they claimed that this topic is asking us to explain on what are the ways that helps us to gain knowledge which cause disagreement? i couldnt understand the meaning they are trying to convey. so, friends, help me to be clear on what is this topic about.anyway, can i write my essay on different approaches of disagreement? Reply Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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