What's your opinion on abortion?

[Where Love Died Laughing]

I've got nothing against abortion and I believe it to be a basic right. There are certain cases where I am more "for-abortion" than in others, such as if the female was raped. But generally, I don't see how someone can force a woman to have a child she doesn't feel fit to take care of.

It's interesting, while reading news and such about abortion on Serbian news sites, I've noticed that in the comments it's mostly the men who are against it. I don't know if it is the same in other countries, too...

[kiwi.at.heart]

I am completely for the right to have a abortion. I have thought about this concerning myself, and I know that if for some reason (e.g contraception failing) I was to fall pregnant, there is a very small chance I wouldn't have a abortion. Why? When we have kids, we only want whats best for them. If I was to have a child now, I know that I couldn't do that. Sure there are some young mums with kids who probably will turn out alright, but my plan at the moment is to get my bachelor degree, work hard to a get a good career, so that at the time I plan for kids, I'm happy where I am in life and emotionally and financially ready to be able to support children. If I had a child now, though life would go on, I would always be thinking in the back of my mind and how this child's life would be better if I was older. Mentally I know I couldn't give a child all it deserves, and that it would be unfair to bring a child into this world under that mentality.

I know people will probably have problems with my reasoning but I just wanted to put my own personal perspective out there.

[Babydolleyes]

The title says it all. What's your opinion on abortion?

We've been discussing that topic on our TOK class for about two months and we can't seem to finish this debate. The thing is, that every time we start this topic, we end up in the wrong field - religion. I know there are religious aspects of this, but I really am interested in your opinion on this topic? I want to finish this debate with someone since none of my colleauges are willing to do so out of the class.

Not to get in too many details to soon, just to say that I think that abortion is, well, doable. I'm definitely not against it. My main point is that, when it comes to such an, well, unwanted consequence - the parents should be offered a way out. What's the point of having the baby if they won't love it, or don't know how to handle the baby, or won't give it up for adoption but leave it somewhere on the street to freeze to death? Or sth even worse. Or, what if the baby is sick, and they want to ease her pain? I know this sounds, not humane, but aren't the parents at least a bit able to decide on the behalf of their baby. If the baby is ill, she'll suffer, and by that, the parents will suffer too. None of the parents want to see their children unhappy, or, God forbid, ill. I know that by doing an abortion we are killing a living being, but the baby isn't still 'alive' - isn't aware of anything (the abortion within 28 weeks of the fetus's 'formation', after that not anymore ).

But on the other hand, who are we to decide for another human beeing? Are we, by doing that, playing God?

What's your opinion on this?

I don't like the argument of ''as soon as the sperm has penetrated the egg it's a human being'', I think it's a very naive opinion, I believe it's as potentially a human being as the sperm or egg before they ''became one''. So many things have to happen after the sperm and egg have fused together, it's not a human being at all in my opinion. If killing it is murder, then in my opinion masturbation is murder too. I despise the religious point of view too, and I think in a perfect world abortion would be so ''situational'', which isn't realistic in our world. There are so many ''situations'' where abortion is considered acceptable, some say oh if the girl was raped then its okay, if the girl was on the pill and used a condom and still got pregnant then abortion is okay blablabla, but the thing is abortion can't really work like that, it's either legal or not, who is going to determine who is allowed to get an abortion or not if it's legal? I'm very very pro-choice, I believe that each individual woman should get to choose exactly what happens to her body, and unfortunately I feel the man doesn't really have any say whatsoever. I highly doubt I would ever get an abortion myself, but I think options are essential, whether we decide to take advantage of the options or not is completely irrelevant. If a woman expresses great desire to terminate her pregnancy, but since it's illegal she can't so she's stuck with it.. well then I fear for the child. Life isn't fair... and no one has determined when life begins, it's up to each individual to decide when they believe life begins since the topic is still this ambiguous, but I think most people would agree that there is an obvious difference between a woman who is 5 weeks pregnant and 27 weeks pregnant. I think religious people worry too much about how other people live their lives, I think that's one of the biggest issues with this topic..

[jesseicka]

we have discussed this topic in theory of knowledge as well. i believe that abortion is not ethical, however, under certain circumstances it is acceptable. for instance, if a person has just been raped and she does not want the child, i understand why she would want to get an abortion because she doesnt want to grow up resenting that child or living with something which she would claim as a mistake. or if it is between a life and death situation... however, if a person is with her boyfriend and she gets pregnant and does not want the child so she turns to abortion, i dont think that is acceptable at all. either u own up to your mistakes and take responsibility to take care of the child or you can always turn to adoption... even in the rape case, there is always adoption. yes i know..."the thing is just a fetus it doesnt even have a heart yet" well i dont care !!! in my mind, if it was meant to be a human being it is still a human being and you should not kill it under any circumstances. i just stand on the opposite side of the fence when it comes to abortions.

[Jyrgen]

we have discussed this topic in theory of knowledge as well. i believe that abortion is not ethical, however, under certain circumstances it is acceptable. for instance, if a person has just been raped and she does not want the child, i understand why she would want to get an abortion because she doesnt want to grow up resenting that child or living with something which she would claim as a mistake. or if it is between a life and death situation... however, if a person is with her boyfriend and she gets pregnant and does not want the child so she turns to abortion, i dont think that is acceptable at all. either u own up to your mistakes and take responsibility to take care of the child or you can always turn to adoption... even in the rape case, there is always adoption. yes i know..."the thing is just a fetus it doesnt even have a heart yet" well i dont care !!! in my mind, if it was meant to be a human being it is still a human being and you should not kill it under any circumstances. i just stand on the opposite side of the fence when it comes to abortions.

http://save-our-sperm.org/

[miss mel]

A womans body is her own damn business. I don't know if i personally would ever have an abortion (or even children for that matter) but i would like a choice and its not up to anyone else to make that choice for me.

[krystinawashereXD]

well, honestly, I am pro-choice.

I am certainly not looking for an argument with anyone...

there is no such thing as "pro-abortion".

I believe that we should be pro-choice, as banning abortion would be like playing God.

thanks for letting me voice my opinion.

[Award Winning Boss]

there is no such thing as "pro-abortion".

I think you mean to say that pro choice isn't pro abortion. I reckon some people are pro abortion as a rather extreme way of reducing the worlds population.

[SerUmbras]

I'm a very logical sort of person, so I tend towards a utilitarian point of view regarding ethics. So, my opinion is that abortions are quite alright. However, there's more to my opinion than that.

My friend did a very enlightening presentation on this topic, mostly covering the definition of when a foetus/embryo becomes "human". Some religious people say that it's at conception and that God will punish those who have abortions. Apparently, nowhere in the Bible (Old or New Testament) does it explicitly say this. In fact, there are few places where it even allude to this, except for in Exodus and similar places where, interestingly enough, it effectively says any foetus younger than 5 months is worthless (note that this is open to arguement)

On the other hand, the medical and legal professionals seem to subconsiously believe that the 3rd trimester (about 6 months on) is when the foetus is considered human. During the 1st, abortions are legal everywhere in Australia, whereas they're illegal after the 3rd begins.

Looking at the ethics behind it on the other hand is very difficult. Unless there is a clear-cut reason why the baby should be aborted (genetic defect, potential harm to mother) then an abortion needs to be given really good thought. If the mother has been raped for example and is unable to find any way to satisfy the needs of both herself and her child for the future, then an abortion seems quite reasonable. Having life with no quality, or for a short period of time due to malnutrition is hardly a life is it?

Or is it? That's the hardest part of abortion - do we, as people, have the right to decide the end of an innocent child's life? Some people say that we cannot, and shouldn't, do such a thing. Then again, some of those people are probably those voting for capital punishment and wars around the world...

I don't care what your personal decision about this is; I'll treat you just the same regardless - as your actions towards me dictates. But, that doesn't mean i don't disagree with everyone's views either. I personally am highly pro-choice, due to my vaugely utilitarian ethical views. But, like i said, have your own opinion and enjoy it.

[AkHyldmo]

In general I am pro-abortion as I believe that all humans (women mostly I guess) should have the right to decide whether they want to keep the baby, foster, embryo etc... I have been to some societies that forbid abortion entirely, even though the cause of pregnancy is because of rape or incest. What irritates me even more are these gynecologist killers that do not see the hypocrisy, when they argue that they are saving a life by taking another...

But as mentioned before there is no definite answer to this so... Yeah.

Edited June 4, 2012 by AkHyldmo

[Award Winning Boss]

I'm a very logical sort of person, so I tend towards a utilitarian point of view regarding ethics. So, my opinion is that abortions are quite alright. However, there's more to my opinion than that.

Sorry, but how does 'being logical' tend to lean towards utilitarianism? Biggest leap of logic if I ever saw it

[Arrowhead]

I am very pro-choice and am in agreement with most comments here on that side of the fence, but, there's a more human and emotional issue to this topic that I haven't seen be picked up in this thread. While everyone has forwarded fantastic arguments about the disagreements surrounding the personhood of a foetus, the woman's body as her own property, invasive governmental measures being an infringement on personal freedom to choose, etc., there's just a more personal side to it all that even a rational, intellectual mind and argument finds difficult to come to terms with.

I've always been a stauch pro-choice person, since I understood what abortion was anyway. My parents are very pro-choice, my mum has freely admitted having exercised this choice on four separate occasions, and yes, this was after she got married. She only believed in planned pregnancies.

But when I was 17, I got my girlfriend pregnant. We took all the precautions and everything, but sometimes, no matter how much you prepare, it just doesn't work. We both mutually decided that an abortion was the best decision since neither of us were capable of being parents and we yet had so much to do in our lives and careers, especially since my future was in England and hers in America. When we were at the hospital though, we almost didn't go through with it. Sitting there, with only this one thought, this unending panic in your chest, you start to wonder. It was an incredibly difficult thing to do and I would never, ever want to go through it again. I was so glad that the two of us were together there because every time she changed her mind, I convinced her otherwise, and every time I changed my mind, she convinced me otherwise. Indeed, after the whole episode, we couldn't even look at each other anymore, our relationship just fell apart at the seams.

But to this day, I wonder to myself, what if? And that is a 'what if' that never leaves me. What if I had a son? What if my daughter looked like her mother with some of my traits? Would he abhor cricket as much as I did as a child? Would she be an analytical and avid reader like myself? Would he want to go to Law school? Would she be a complete tomboy like my sister? Would he resent me as a father? Would she think I was incapable of understanding her as she grew older?

The endless scenarios play out in my mind when I'm distracted, earlier on, when still in school, I used to have dreams about my son/daughter. It's a lot less now, most of the time I remember him/her/it in passing for no discernible reason. But the 'what if' torture never really does stop.

When I asked my mum if that ever happened to her, if she would dream about having 7 children instead of the 3 she planned, she told me that she thought we would be an Indian version of the Von Trapps (but hopefully without the Nazis).

I guess what I'm getting at with my winding, unending monologue is that being pro-choice is very difficult. Beyond the intellectual rationalisations and all that, truly exercising that choice is one of the most conflicting decisions one will ever make. I'd like to tell pro-Lifer's that I understand their reasons, maybe not the religious arguments or their beliefs of scientific fact, but I understand the personal sentiment that drives them forward and be so passionate about their argument, and I'd like to say that being Pro-Choice doesn't mean we're monsters with no respect for life or murderers. We do suffer the consequences of our actions no matter how we choose. I'm still suffering and I probably will for the rest of my life. So maybe consider going a little easy on us if you're one of the more extremist in your views.

Peace.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Arrowhead

[SerUmbras]

I'm a very logical sort of person, so I tend towards a utilitarian point of view regarding ethics. So, my opinion is that abortions are quite alright. However, there's more to my opinion than that.

Sorry, but how does 'being logical' tend to lean towards utilitarianism? Biggest leap of logic if I ever saw it

Yeah, i guess that might have been a little... out there. What I'm meaning is that, because I think very logically, I tend to look for the most reasonable solution to a problem, even one that's quite emotional or ethical. Utilitarianism is trying to make as many people happy as possible, which is (logically speaking) very good. After all, is it not logical to say 2 happy people is better than 1? That is what I find to be the most logical solution, thus explaining my comment. Sorry if I that caused confusion...

[The Economist]

I think abortion should be mandatory.

Mandatory? Can you elaborate on that? So no child birth should be allowed? I assume you meant in cases of rape?

[Aeronymous]

I think abortion should be mandatory.

Mandatory? Can you elaborate on that? So no child birth should be allowed? I assume you meant in cases of rape?

I dont think he was serious on that one

My opinion on abortion is that people should be allowed to do it.

Those who say that it is murder: The idea of killing someone being ethically questionable has been introduced in order to keep order in society,

a fetus is not really a member of society and the only person who has the real right to object to the abortion (the mother) is the one who actually gets to make the decision.

[The Economist]

If any of your parents aborted you, none of you would be here. Think about it.

Oh what an argument. Still, it's our mothers' choice. If we were aborted, yes, we wouldn't be here but we wouldn't know the difference either. Some other child would have been born when our parents felt ready to raise us - and would have probably ended up being raised in a safer and more welcoming environment. Also, if your mother was raped, would you really let her raise a child which was the result of such traumatic experience? I don't think so. I don't even know how children who are the result of rape feel because I've never met any but I would love to hear their views.

Now you think about it.

[Emmi]

If any of your parents aborted you, none of you would be here. Think about it.

Oh what an argument. Still, it's our mothers' choice. If we were aborted, yes, we wouldn't be here but we wouldn't know the difference either. Some other child would have been born when our parents felt ready to raise us - and would have probably ended up being raised in a safer and more welcoming environment. Also, if your mother was raped, would you really let her raise a child which was the result of such traumatic experience? I don't think so. I don't even know how children who are the result of rape feel because I've never met any but I would love to hear their views.

Now you think about it.

First, I don't buy your "rape" argument. Only 1% of abortions occur because of it (or incest).

Second, if you feel that by aborting your child, you're saving him (or her) from a life of misery, why don't you simply give that child up for adoption?

I feel like people use the "why not simply give the child up for adoption" line too often. I don't think people know how difficult, long, and time-consuming the adoption process is, not to mention how often overcrowded adoption agencies are.

In a perfect world every child that goes to an adoption agency would be adopted just a few weeks afterwards with no problems, etc. But this isn't a perfect world. People that go to adoption agencies are looking for that "perfect child" that fits in with their family. What if a child has a developmental problem, a behavioral problem, etc? Undesirable to parents. Doesn't get adopted. Stays for years. That's an extreme example and probably isn't true, but it might happen somewhere. If every child that was put up for adoption was placed in an adoption center, these places would be filled to capacity.

In addition adoption agencies as well as governmental bureaucrats sometimes make the adoption process difficult. In my state for example, a gay couple cannot adopt a child, no matter how much they would like. Even if they were the most loving, wonderful people able to provide for the child financially, emotionally, and physically, they would be denied, simply because they are a gay couple. In fact, a heterosexual couple that has been off-and-on for years, on the verge of separating, etc would probably be able to adopt a child easier than the gay couple. It sucks, but my state has determined that they'd be "better parents." Adoption agencies can deny couples for any reason they want, especially if they're privately-run. So on that basis, many kids will not be adopted simply due to governmental and agency regulations.

Even if you are able to adopt a child, and meet all the agency's "checks," it still takes months, even years for all the paperwork to be sorted out. Some people don't even want to bother with all that.

One of my best friends is adopted, she spent the first four years of her life in an adoption agency in China. She's happy now and has been with the same parents since she was adopted, but four years of her life were spent there. And she still has problems with things such as applying for a driver's license, etc. because as an adopted kid, she had no birth certificate and several other papers necessary for that stuff.

I am not advocating for abortion, in fact I don't really like it all that much and it really shouldn't be used except for cases of rape/incest and when the mother's life is threatened. But what I am saying is that before you scream "adoption agency! Place all children conceived through rape all up for adoption!" perhaps you should look into the process of adoption. It's not practical for every single child conceived to be placed up for adoption.

[The Economist]

If any of your parents aborted you, none of you would be here. Think about it.

Oh what an argument. Still, it's our mothers' choice. If we were aborted, yes, we wouldn't be here but we wouldn't know the difference either. Some other child would have been born when our parents felt ready to raise us - and would have probably ended up being raised in a safer and more welcoming environment. Also, if your mother was raped, would you really let her raise a child which was the result of such traumatic experience? I don't think so. I don't even know how children who are the result of rape feel because I've never met any but I would love to hear their views.

Now you think about it.

First, I don't buy your "rape" argument. Only 1% of abortions occur because of it (or incest).

Second, if you feel that by aborting your child, you're saving him (or her) from a life of misery, why don't you simply give that child up for adoption?

I am not advocating for abortion but why is it your business what a woman decides to do with her body and child? Nobody but her can know what's best for her - or thinks so. By selecting to abort a child she may not be making the right choice but it will be hers.

Btw if I don't see any valid statistics, I don't buy your "only 1% of abortions occur because of it".

[URA BOAT]

i don't know when a life begins..3...4 week into pregnancy...but what i can't seem to grasp...is if you have created a life inside of you should take care of it(not by rape). if a mother kills a 1 year old child it is not ok but if it kills 4 week old baby it is ok...how does the age of a baby give the mother a choice. yes the baby is inside the mother but haven't the mother already made her choice when she decided to engage in coitus.

[Guest amentalaim]

i don't know when a life begins..3...4 week into pregnancy...but what i can't seem to grasp...is if you have created a life inside of you should take care of it(not by rape). if a mother kills a 1 year old child it is not ok but if it kills 4 week old baby it is ok...how does the age of a baby give the mother a choice. yes the baby is inside the mother but haven't the mother already made her choice when she decided to engage in coitus.

I'm not sure whether you have read any of the earlier posts or not, but I'll reply similarly in case you haven't. Firstly, you explicitly wrote that abortion is only alright in the case of rape, but as outlined earlier, wouldn't that imply that all children born as a result of their mothers being raped are therefore not a life and as a result either 'inferior' human beings or not human at all? And even more of an issue if this were how laws would be enforced, is how to prove the zygote is a result of rape. As it is, rape victims always have an extremely difficult time proving their rapists guilty in court. The emotional trauma may prevent them from even wanting to remember the incident while the amount of evidence put before court is often circumstantial. And that's even if they can find their rapist.

Moving along, in my opinion, it is wrong to say that simply because a woman has had sex that she is open to the choice of having a kid. Flipping this around to your stand-point, would YOU be ready to father a kid at the age of eighteen? Would you be totally ready and ok with committing all your life, resources and time to taking care of the unexpected child? Would you be ready for a life-time commitment with your partner that would at least involve raising a kid together, if not a full on relationship? Will you be able to raise the child in a stable and loving environment with all the support it needs? Would you be ready to put your dreams on hold in order to take care of the kid? Just some questions to consider and these aren't even starting to cover the depth and range of what people considering abortion will consider. Contrary to what hard-line anti-abortionists would like to believe, pro-abortionists aren't all sadistic/masochistic murderers without morals.

Despite how confrontational I may sound, I am quite alright if that is your opinion. What I am not ok with however, is this opinion being forced into laws and legislation.