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Is it ethical to eat meat?


Guest kenshi64

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You have a point.. if we would live in the stone- age.

Now there is no real reason not to digest food that were a source of microbes and other things. This includes blood, shellfish, raw milk etc, etc. Just because this could have been valid a couple of THOUSANDS years ago does not make it valid today. If you are so afraid of nasty stuff then you should stop eating all kinds of meat as it will cause equally bad things if not cooked properly.

To the Halal guy:

Nice that you copied that straight from wikipedia (seems like it's not on wiki anymore, whatever), hope you got your point through, I hope you also read the criticism of the study, which is much more recent. Have a go at this, and there is more if you are willing to dive in:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17972-animals-feel-the-pain-of-religious-slaughter.html

Edited by Ezak
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You have a point.. if we would live in the stone- age.

Now there is no real reason not to digest food that were a source of microbes and other things. This includes blood, shellfish, raw milk etc, etc. Just because this could have been valid a couple of THOUSANDS years ago does not make it valid today. If you are so afraid of nasty stuff then you should stop eating all kinds of meat as it will cause equally bad things if not cooked properly.

To the Halal guy:

Nice that you copied that straight from wikipedia (seems like it's not on wiki anymore, whatever), hope you got your point through, I hope you also read the criticism of the study, which is much more recent. Have a go at this, and there is more if you are willing to dive in:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17972-animals-feel-the-pain-of-religious-slaughter.html

Did you not read the whole post? "urea, uric acid, keratin and carbon dioxide" Google each term and see what effects they can have on your body or actually, tell you what? Try to drink a bottle of blood and see for yourself. So now you're saying that drinking "boiled" blood is same as eating "meat"?

To Gaby: I've just lost respect for you lol ...

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Guess what, here in sweden we eat palt, basically raw blood with flour, we also eat blackpudding. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_pudding

I am not saying that you don't have a point, perhaps blood may be bad for you, but it hasn't been banned here in Sweden, which for me pretty much means that you should not be worried if you eat dished made from blood if prepared right. And to be honest, who doesn't like their steak rare?

Just a quick note:

Food is not solely for nutrition, people probably do not care what nutritional value a dish have (unless you are on some kind of diet or just really picky) as long as it is tasty, lots of things are in fact bad for you in the sense that it doesn't add anything of value and just makes you fat, such as white bread.

Edited by Ezak
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Guess what, here in sweden we eat palt, basically raw blood with flour, we also eat blackpudding. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_pudding

I am not saying that you don't have a point, perhaps blood may be bad for you, but it hasn't been banned here in Sweden, which for me pretty much means that you should not be worried if you eat dished made from blood if prepared right. And to be honest, who doesn't like their steak rare?

Just a quick note:

Food is not solely for nutrition, people probably do not care what nutritional value a dish have (unless you are on some kind of diet or just really picky) as long as it is tasty, lots of things are in fact bad for you in the sense that it doesn't add anything of value and just makes you fat, such as white bread.

Yes but in many countries, here in the west, prostitution isn't explicitly fought against but instead governments provide equipments (i hope i don't have to mention them) to the prostitutes because they say that it is one of the most ancient practices and it'll continue to happen so they better provide protections, but does this make prostitution a good thing?

Now that's another discussion that people do not always eat nutritious diet...

As i mentioned, hemoglobin is a special type of protein which isn't broken down by your stomach. You said that "if we would live in the stone- age." I don't quite understand how you can argue about this fact...It is just not digestible. There are people out there who eat paper, insects idk what kind of stuff they eat. They can if they want to but does it have any benefit?

Now back to vegetarian and non vegetarian diet...India is a prime example of a place where majority of Hindus are vegetarian. Search google, there are so many articles where people suffer from proteins deficiency...Sure you can obtain proteins from vegetables (pulses etc) but you won't be able to eat equivalent amount of proteins that meat can provide...Vegetarian people don't eat fish as well as it is considered "white" meat. Fish is one of the most important source of iodine. Where will you get your iodine from? There are other things that can provide energy for you to stay alive, unlike blood.

EDIT: Oh and i bet Gaby is non-vegetarian...

Edited by shad0wboss
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Just because you need to plan your diet doesn't make it impossible or even particularly hard. The only real "issue" may be that there is no plant or vegetable with all essential amino acids, but by eating a variety of vegetables you can cover everything you need. http://www.livestrong.com/article/319304-which-fruits-vegetables-contain-iodine/

well, what do you know, seems like kelp gives you all the iodine you need!

And with blood, I'm not saying you should chug blood, just that there is no big deal in eating things with blood in it, you won't feel bad, and it might be delicious, kind of like that day after kebab that makes my stomach all weird, but which I eat anyway for convenience and taste. You could as well ban candy because its probably more of a health issue than anything of what says in the Q'uran or the bible about what we should and should not eat.

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Just because you need to plan your diet doesn't make it impossible or even particularly hard. The only real "issue" may be that there is no plant or vegetable with all essential amino acids, but by eating a variety of vegetables you can cover everything you need. http://www.livestrong.com/article/319304-which-fruits-vegetables-contain-iodine/

well, what do you know, seems like kelp gives you all the iodine you need!

And with blood, I'm not saying you should chug blood, just that there is no big deal in eating things with blood in it, you won't feel bad, and it might be delicious, kind of like that day after kebab that makes my stomach all weird, but which I eat anyway for convenience and taste. You could as well ban candy because its probably more of a health issue than anything of what says in the Q'uran or the bible about what we should and should not eat.

Actually, can't agree more with your statement about candy and religion. I don't have an answer to that.

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Well I'm not sure what is in blood, sorry never had an opportunity to look at it!
However what I do know is that people in Europe have made blood sausage for generations without any

serious side-effects. Like Ezak said I would be more worried about the processed foods in your cupboard than some

quality blood sausage. The only reason why Muslims and jews don't eat pork, from a social (no theological) perspective is because

these religions originate in hot places where things like blood spoil quickly. Pork happens to be one of the quickest spoiling meats, coincidence?
Christianity also originates from the land of the jews, but generally as it spread, gentiles (non jewish Christians) were not required to follow Jewish law.

Yeah it might have all of these toxins, but people found a use for it, and it worked.

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So you guys are vegetarians?

I mean, my brother is disgusted by red meat. He pukes as he sees a leg piece or red meat. The only thing he eats is boneless chicken and that's rarely. He's like 13 but he's been like that since the beginning whereas I, on the other hand, love bbq and roasted chicken...

Edited by shad0wboss
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Nope, I'm no vegetarian at all, but I do belive that this is an issue with ethical implications worth considering. I also think it should be best for everyone involved on this planet if we cut down on our meat eating to perhaps 3 times a week instead of having it with every meal, due to it being more efficient to produce grain and vegetables than meat if you look at the cost and that more people can be fed for much much less. It also has a beneficial impact on the climate.

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Nope, I'm no vegetarian at all, but I do belive that this is an issue with ethical implications worth considering. I also think it should be best for everyone involved on this planet if we cut down on our meat eating to perhaps 3 times a week instead of having it with every meal, due to it being more efficient to produce grain and vegetables than meat if you look at the cost and that more people can be fed for much much less. It also has a beneficial impact on the climate.

You don't even need a study to prove that. Excess of anything can be harmful.

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Oh boy.... I am by no means a vegetarian, I have a taste for many animals products, including eating bone marrow! So my eating habits may be best described as Neanderthal. I'm with Ezak though on reducing the eating of meat, we eat it way too frequently. People have been rationing it for generations as part of their religious fasts, only now with science do we learn that it actually is good to limit meat consumption. So yeah if you want to be a vegetarian, congratulations but let me enjoy my steak! (and heart disease maybe)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Oh boy.... I am by no means a vegetarian, I have a taste for many animals products, including eating bone marrow! So my eating habits may be best described as Neanderthal. I'm with Ezak though on reducing the eating of meat, we eat it way too frequently. People have been rationing it for generations as part of their religious fasts, only now with science do we learn that it actually is good to limit meat consumption. So yeah if you want to be a vegetarian, congratulations but let me enjoy my steak! (and heart disease maybe)

Agree, if meat-eaters simply reduced their intake to perhaps 1or2 times a week and bought better quality, ethically-produced meat then there probably wouldn't be such a problem environmentally and ethically.

Of course everyone can and should make their own choices about what they feel comfortable eating, however it simply wouldn't be helpful for everyone in the world to be vegetarian. For example in the UK at the moment there is a huge problem with deer populations which are causing problems in urban areas as well as prompting many motor accidents, the only real way to control them is to humanely cull a proportion of them - surely then it would be extremely ethical to eat venison to ensure that the animals didn't die for no purpose? (I realise this is a quite specific example but it does apply to other cases, such as male calves as well who obviously can't produce milk and consequently are not useful to the beleaguered farmer - hence are slaughtered)

I have vegetarian friends all of whom have several pets (cats/dogs etc) and it always strikes me that surely buying normal dog/cat food is providing a huge market for low-quality animal protein that will almost certainly be produced by lower ethical standards than meat intended for human consumption simply because people don't think about it so much.

If you're going to be a vegetarian because you believe that it isn't ethical to kill any animals for consumption you should want to go beyond simply not eating beef or chicken, because there are so many unexpected places where substances derived from a dead animal are used (the difference of course being with veganism that these are not products derived from animals, but those which have had to involve the animal dying specifically).

Pigs are one of the few animals which are only useful to humans when dead (besides being kept as pets) and as you can see from this link (from the excellent tv programme qi!) their body parts are used for all sorts of things http://qi.com/television/series-j/jam-jelly-and-juice/pigs

Sorry for this long rant, but basically this is why I'm not vegetarian because if I wanted to be so for ethical reasons it would be so hard to actually do it properly (obviously if you are vegetarian because you don't like meat then there isn't such a problem with hypocrisy). I come from a farming family living in a region where farming is everywhere (Cornwall in SW england) and see directly how animals can be treated extremely well and lead happy lives before they are slaughtered (humanely, they are put to sleep first so don't feel a thing) and then sold on to be used for many things other than meat.

Edited by silver*linings
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You take life to sustain life. That's just the way nature works. Be it plant or animal life, you need to kill stuff to keep yourself alive. I have no idea why some people are extra biased against killing animals. I bet things would be different if we could hear plants scream.. Imagine how picking flowers would be then :P

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You take life to sustain life. That's just the way nature works. Be it plant or animal life, you need to kill stuff to keep yourself alive. I have no idea why some people are extra biased against killing animals. I bet things would be different if we could hear plants scream.. Imagine how picking flowers would be then :P

This is a universal rule, but there are exceptions to every rule of course! Bees are actually a next level animal. Every other animal consumes life to sustain their own. Herbivores eat plants, Omnivores east plants and animals and of course carnivores eat animals. Bees however (and other pollinators, but especially bees) are special as from when they make food nothing is consumed in the sense of something dying. In fact life is created as they spread pollen, collecting their nectar from flower to flower. Very special animal indeed...

Also bee's wax is the only fuel when burned, releases negative ions. Negative ions are a positive thing to have in a house or other closed space as they stick to pollutants and other particles in the air and carry them to the ground or other surfaces.

tl;dr BEES ARE AMAZING!

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I'm guessing how we treat the animals before we eat them can be ethically questionable.

But I think the eating of meat itself isn't up for ethical debate. We are omnivores, so I'm guessing it is just natural to have cravings for meat.

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Well I'm not sure what is in blood, sorry never had an opportunity to look at it!

However what I do know is that people in Europe have made blood sausage for generations without any

serious side-effects. Like Ezak said I would be more worried about the processed foods in your cupboard than some

quality blood sausage. The only reason why Muslims and jews don't eat pork, from a social (no theological) perspective is because

these religions originate in hot places where things like blood spoil quickly. Pork happens to be one of the quickest spoiling meats, coincidence?

Christianity also originates from the land of the jews, but generally as it spread, gentiles (non jewish Christians) were not required to follow Jewish law.

Yeah it might have all of these toxins, but people found a use for it, and it worked.

PORK FORBIDDEN

Question:

Why is the eating of pork forbidden in Islam?

Answer:

The fact that consumption of pork is prohibited in Islam is well-known. The following points explain various aspects of this prohibition:

1. Pork prohibited in the Qur’an

The Qur’an prohibits the consumption of pork in no less than four different places. It is prohibited in 2:173, 5:3, 6:145 and 16:115.

“Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah.”

[Al Qur’an 5:3]

The above verses of the Glorious Qur’an are sufficient to satisfy a Muslim as to why pork is forbidden.

2. Pork prohibited in the Bible

The Christian is likely to be convinced by his religious scriptures. The Bible prohibits the consumption of pork, in the Book of Leviticus:

“And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven footed, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.”

“Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch, they are unclean to you.”

[book of Leviticus 11:7-8]

Pork is also prohibited in the Bible in the Book of Deuteronomy:

“And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you. Ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.”

[book of Deuteronomy 14:8]

A similar prohibition is repeated in the Bible in the Book of Isaiah Chapter 65 Verses 2-5.

3. Consumption of pork causes several diseases

The other non-Muslims and atheists will agree only if convinced through reason, logic and science. Eating of pork can cause no less than seventy different types of diseases. A person can have various helminths like roundworm, pinworm, hookworm, etc. One of the most dangerous is Taenia Solium, which is in lay man’s terminology called tapeworm. It harbours in the intestine and is very long. Its ova i.e. eggs, enter the blood stream and can reach almost all the organs of the body. If it enters the brain it can cause memory loss. If it enters the heart it can cause heart attack, if it enters the eye it can cause blindness, if it enters the liver it can cause liver damage. It can damage almost all the organs of the body.

Another dangerous helminthes is Trichuris trichiura. A common misconception about pork is that if it is cooked well, these ova die. In a research project undertaken in America, it was found that out of twenty-four people suffering from Trichuris trichiura, twenty-two had cooked the pork very well. This indicates that the ova present in the pork do not die under normal cooking temperature.

4. Pork has fat building material

Pork has very little muscle building material and contains excess of fat. This fat gets deposited in the vessels and can cause hypertension and heart attack. It is not surprising that over 50 million Americans suffer from hypertension.

5. Pig is one of the filthiest animals on earth

The pig is one of the filthiest animals on earth. It lives and thrives on muck, faeces and dirt. It is the best scavenger that I know that God has produced. In the villages they don’t have modern toilets and the villagers excrete in the open air. Very often excreta is cleared by pigs.

Some may argue that in advanced countries like Australia, pigs are bred in very clean and hygienic conditions. Even in these hygienic conditions the pigs are kept together in sties. No matter how hard you try to keep them clean they are filthy by nature. They eat and enjoy their own as well as their neighbour’s excreta.

6. Pig is the most shameless animal

The pig is the most shameless animal on the face of the earth. It is the only animal that invites its friends to have sex with its mate. If you eat pigs then you behave like pigs. ...........man's psychology is affected by what he eats

That's the reason pork is forbidden rather than illogical or coincidental reasons such as the "geography" of a place. Islam is meant for the whole of humanity rather than just the arabs.............

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You know one thing that Tibetan monks do not kill animals for meat. They rather eat animals that have died during accident ( a yak falling of the cliff). We can call this ethical since no animal has to die for us. One more thing. Herbivores have long (small intestine) and carnivores has small (small intestines) ( when a meat is synthesized inside its stomach, the toxins can really pass through the small intestine of the carnivore much faster. Humans have big small intestine. Therefore human body is developed to eat meat.

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You have a point.. if we would live in the stone- age.

Now there is no real reason not to digest food that were a source of microbes and other things. This includes blood, shellfish, raw milk etc, etc. Just because this could have been valid a couple of THOUSANDS years ago does not make it valid today. If you are so afraid of nasty stuff then you should stop eating all kinds of meat as it will cause equally bad things if not cooked properly.

To the Halal guy:

Nice that you copied that straight from wikipedia (seems like it's not on wiki anymore, whatever), hope you got your point through, I hope you also read the criticism of the study, which is much more recent. Have a go at this, and there is more if you are willing to dive in:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17972-animals-feel-the-pain-of-religious-slaughter.html

Well it seems that you are unaware of the term "halal". It means flowing of the blood out of an animal by swiftly cutting the windpipe and the jugular veins. Therefore, this principle remains the same throughout. Regardless whether the animal is stunned or not before it is slaughtered, this method is compulsory. As it is stated in the website link you provided, it states that ", but now Haluk Anil of the University of Bristol, UK, and colleagues have shown that the amount of blood drained from the animal, and the rate of blood loss, is the same regardless of whether or not it is stunned first." (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn10712-halalstandard-slaughtering-doesnt-need-animals-awake.html)

So thank you for proving "the halal guy's" point

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Guest Zoya (aka: ziasha)

I don't get the point of asking people what is ethical or not. For everyone in this world the definition of ethical is different. Even right now in this forum everyone has described ethical in different way. Some about how it links to their religion, their culture, some about the effect it has on animals, some about the side effects of eating meat. Now here we all are fighting (or so it seems) or maybe in a almost heated argument, trying to make each other believe how correct we are. But all of us humans are so stubborn that we never let go of what we believe in. Its quite obvious that the title just asked our opinion "is it", so why is it that here we are proving people wrong. I am here to state my opinion, and it might be weird, but i think everything should be done to a certain extent. Eat meat, no one stops you, but the animal's well being, it having a no painful death, and most importantly the animal should in no way suffer to be presented on our plates. There are a lot of dishes in Europe where geese and ducks are tortured to be made into a delicacy <--- this right here is unethical, SUFFERING, "Foi de gras" should be unethical, because of the way the geese are tortured. When it comes to chicken and pork or such common animals, they're numbers are sooo high, that mostly it doesn't affect them (but again as long as their treated well, and not tortured). I am a vegetarian myself, but i don't believe that eating meat is unethical, cause there are a lot of factors that need to be taken into consideration. I highly think instead of talking about food, its better to think about how ANIMALS are actually going EXTINCT because of POACHING (recently the clouded leopard has gone extinct and so has the black rhino), how animals are tortured for their skin, their valuable items. That topic should make us ponder and actually not only think BUT ALSO ACT AGAINST IT.

Anyways this was my opinion :D and i have no right to make you all agree to it :D Free country, free World

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I don't get the point of asking people what is ethical or not. For everyone in this world the definition of ethical is different. Even right now in this forum everyone has described ethical in different way. Some about how it links to their religion, their culture, some about the effect it has on animals, some about the side effects of eating meat. Now here we all are fighting (or so it seems) or maybe in a almost heated argument, trying to make each other believe how correct we are. But all of us humans are so stubborn that we never let go of what we believe in. Its quite obvious that the title just asked our opinion "is it", so why is it that here we are proving people wrong. I am here to state my opinion, and it might be weird, but i think everything should be done to a certain extent. Eat meat, no one stops you, but the animal's well being, it having a no painful death, and most importantly the animal should in no way suffer to be presented on our plates. There are a lot of dishes in Europe where geese and ducks are tortured to be made into a delicacy <--- this right here is unethical, SUFFERING, "Foi de gras" should be unethical, because of the way the geese are tortured. When it comes to chicken and pork or such common animals, they're numbers are sooo high, that mostly it doesn't affect them (but again as long as their treated well, and not tortured). I am a vegetarian myself, but i don't believe that eating meat is unethical, cause there are a lot of factors that need to be taken into consideration. I highly think instead of talking about food, its better to think about how ANIMALS are actually going EXTINCT because of POACHING (recently the clouded leopard has gone extinct and so has the black rhino), how animals are tortured for their skin, their valuable items. That topic should make us ponder and actually not only think BUT ALSO ACT AGAINST IT.

Anyways this was my opinion :D and i have no right to make you all agree to it :D Free country, free World

But animals do have right to live, right.. Whether it is painless or painful is t ethical to take some creature's life. You have a point, imagine there is a alien whose staple diet is human, they kill humans but won't humans have their right to live. Unfortunately same thing is happening to animals, but you have a point.

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