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#2 'Compare and contrast knowledge which can be expressed in words/ symbols with knowledge that cannot be expressed in this way.


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I have to start planning my ToK essay so i just wanted to kind of get a rough idea on each one

i found some threads on most of them except the one i'm actually thinking of doing.

which is:

#2 'Compare and contrast knowledge which can be expressed in words/ symbols with knowledge that cannot be expressed in this way. Consider CAS and one or more areas of knowledge'

But i'm not too sure cause i think that it has the potential of going down the line of an english essay as opposed to ToK...

any tips?

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Why do you say you think it might turn into an English essay? I think this is a decent question to answer, actually. Or at least I say that on first viewing :)

The best way to keep on-TOK is to approach the question along the lines of knowledge, what it is and how we get it -- and using the IB's special pentagram thingy with the Ways of Knowing and Areas of Knowing.

What sort of knowledge do you know that can't be expressed in words/symbols, do you think? Perhaps you could argue that emotion cannot be fully expressed in words and symbols. I think that's what they're trying to get at with CAS (although it's not technically an Area of Knowledge...), things like 'satisfaction', 'pride' and all those other things you're meant to get from community service, or the rush of endorphins you get after exercise etc.

Through what ways of knowing do we acquire knowledge that cannot be put into words? And conversely through what ways of knowing do we acquire knowledge which can? Is there a link between being able to perceive something with the 5 senses that means we can put it into words? Are some words perhaps inadequate descriptors? What about things which can be expressed in one language but not in another (assuming you don't speak both), what are the features of those things which means one language has a word and another doesn't (this point is relevant but not directly, so don't spend too much time on it if you mention it)?

Some ideas you can check out might be Plato's idea of the world of the forms -- which, in a nutshell, is that everything exists somewhere as a true 'essence' and we recognise features of it in life and (for the sake of this question) define them, sometimes with words. For instance, think of 3 different tables. One tall, one medium, one small; one round, one square, one oval, one with 1 leg, one with 12 legs, one with 4 legs; one with an even surface, one with an uneven surface... etc etc etc.

Anyway, how do we identify them all as tables? We know them all to be one thing, despite the fact that they all have very little in common. Plato basically suggests that it's because there is a 'form' of an 'ultimate' table and we recognise features of that ultimate table in those 3 objects such that we know them all to be tables. Take that more abstract and think of things like beauty, happiness etc. and he argues that those also exist in this world of forms.

I suggest you read up on it, but it should hopefully get you thinking about how we express knowledge that we have :P

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  • 3 months later...

hey, i'm new here :)

actually, i;m considering to write an essay on this question

A friend of mine told me that knowledge that cannot be expressed in words and symbols does not exist.

For instance,in CAS of course you experienced some sorts of emotions,yet, you still can expressed it into words and symbols.

Does anyone has any opinion about this matter?

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  • 1 month later...

yeah nabila, i'm in the same boat with you. i found a TOK teachers blog, saying that this question is very tricky. It also says that language is a medium to convey meaningful idea. It means that the meaning and the language comes together. If it cannot be expressed by words, then it is not meaningful..

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The essay in its entirety is really contrasting between what is gained from personal physical experience with what is learnt/taught from a book/ described. How this relates to CAS activities? Think about it, what does CAS stand for? Creativity, Action and Service - all which demand of you to physically 'step out' and do something; hence this is referred to physical experience.

An idea for what is taught in text books? Imagine a friend, for example, trying to teach you to ride a bike just by description, use of language etc... it all comes to one conclusion: no matter how many fancy words your friend knows, or how many different descriptions he/she has given you, you won't understand what he/she is saying until you actually get on that bike and test it for yourself.

Above is simply a few examples that could be used. Heres another one with a bit of humour:

So, the teacher asks you "If i gave you a dollar and you go home and your dad gives you a dollar, how much money do you have?". Mathematically, the answer is two dollars, right? BUT you reply " one dollar", which the teacher says "you don't know your maths" and you reply "well you don't know my dad".

In the example above, Mathematically, the result is wrong. But if you experienced it, you will come to understand the moral and why you still have a dollar. This leads to an extension where you see that knowledge gained from personal experience also relies on morality - but i won't go into detail for that.

I can keep going, but i have a physics exam in 8 hours... i should get some rest. Good night IB 'Survivors', feel free to ask me any questions

:) x

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  • 2 weeks later...

How is CAS an area of knowledge??

for TOK essay number 2..

im confused

Hi,

Firstly, it does not explicitly say that CAS is an Area of Knowlege. It simply say that you should consider CAS. However, the ambiguous way in which it is phrased could suggest that it wants you to consider CAS as an Area of Knowledge. In such a case you simply consider it as Knowledge obtained from CAS. Such knowledge fits in nicely with "knowledge that cannot be expressed in [words or symbols]".

In my opinion you should not define CAS as an area of knowledge. CAS should simply provide the real life examples to support your argument.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 weeks later...

zaini>

i dunno if experience is one of the WOK but..

i think it cannot be expressed by words. since no one can express how they felt or what they did or what they were thoughts are, exactly by words.

can someone please give me some more advise on how to attack this qst?? :(

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actually, i got this question as a TOK mock essay.

i think knowledge which can be expressed in words are group1 to group 6. from group 1 to 5, it is common knowledge that we can express them in words. in group 6, we can express it by symbols. Knowledge cannot be expressed by worlds/symbols are CAS and TOK. CAS is an experience which cannot be symbolized. Also, TOK is a Theory of KNOWLEDGE we have to use ways of knowing, and other lessons from TOK.

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Okay everybody,

I didn't decide my Topic yet, but this sounds interesting by all means...

The knowledge issue could be the reliability of non-verbal to verbal knowledge.

The problem is what is the non-verbal knowledge that cannot be expressed on words or symbols.

First the knowledge that can be expressed in words are the languages like English, Spanish etc... And the knowledge that is expressed in symbols like Maths and computer science etc... and other language forms like art, dance, body language and music)

I have no time to explain further at the moment

but her is a useful link I've found

http://ibtokspot.blogspot.com/search/label/ToK%20Essays%202012

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  • 3 months later...
The essay in its entirety is really contrasting between what is gained from personal physical experience with what is learnt/taught from a book/ described. How this relates to CAS activities? Think about it, what does CAS stand for? Creativity, Action and Service - all which demand of you to physically 'step out' and do something; hence this is referred to physical experience. An idea for what is taught in text books? Imagine a friend, for example, trying to teach you to ride a bike just by description, use of language etc... it all comes to one conclusion: no matter how many fancy words your friend knows, or how many different descriptions he/she has given you, you won't understand what he/she is saying until you actually get on that bike and test it for yourself. Above is simply a few examples that could be used. Heres another one with a bit of humour: So, the teacher asks you "If i gave you a dollar and you go home and your dad gives you a dollar, how much money do you have?". Mathematically, the answer is two dollars, right? BUT you reply " one dollar", which the teacher says "you don't know your maths" and you reply "well you don't know my dad". In the example above, Mathematically, the result is wrong. But if you experienced it, you will come to understand the moral and why you still have a dollar. This leads to an extension where you see that knowledge gained from personal experience also relies on morality - but i won't go into detail for that. I can keep going, but i have a physics exam in 8 hours... i should get some rest. Good night IB 'Survivors', feel free to ask me any questions :) x

Hey, I found your post super helpful! The humorous example really cleared things up for me. Do you by any chance know of any other examples that could prove the differences of "textbook knowledge" vs. "experience knowledge"?

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hey, i'm new here :) actually, i;m considering to write an essay on this question A friend of mine told me that knowledge that cannot be expressed in words and symbols does not exist. For instance,in CAS of course you experienced some sorts of emotions,yet, you still can expressed it into words and symbols. Does anyone has any opinion about this matter?

For all those doubting that there is knowledge that is independent of language (words/symbols):

Knowledge is today considered to be of different types: explicit knowledge and tacit knowledge, where explicit knowledge can be formulated in words and tacit knowledge cannot, it is more closely related to e.g. the body memorizing the way it moves in dance or in sports, things that cannot be explained fully in words. I'm not personally doing this title, but if I were I'd definitely try to look up tacit knowledge a bit more.

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Hi everyone,

I’m struggling about whether to do question 2 or question 7 as my TOK topic.

I found question 7 quite interesting because CAS (personal experience) is involved and since everyone have different experience of life, I thought it could be a good topic to write on.

But question 7 seems to be easier to write doesn’t it? (as most of us know more than 2 languages, we know exactly how different vocabs bring different meanings to the knower. This also involves the how vocabularies manipulate the knower.

Any suggestions on this 2 topic :huh: ?

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  • 2 weeks later...
hey, i'm new here :) actually, i;m considering to write an essay on this question A friend of mine told me that knowledge that cannot be expressed in words and symbols does not exist. For instance,in CAS of course you experienced some sorts of emotions,yet, you still can expressed it into words and symbols. Does anyone has any opinion about this matter?
For all those doubting that there is knowledge that is independent of language (words/symbols): Knowledge is today considered to be of different types: explicit knowledge and tacit knowledge, where explicit knowledge can be formulated in words and tacit knowledge cannot, it is more closely related to e.g. the body memorizing the way it moves in dance or in sports, things that cannot be explained fully in words. I'm not personally doing this title, but if I were I'd definitely try to look up tacit knowledge a bit more.

Thanks for your suggestions! Let me find some more about these two kinds of knowledge and complete the second draft…

Hi everyone, I’m struggling about whether to do question 2 or question 7 as my TOK topic. I found question 7 quite interesting because CAS (personal experience) is involved and since everyone have different experience of life, I thought it could be a good topic to write on. But question 7 seems to be easier to write doesn’t it? (as most of us know more than 2 languages, we know exactly how different vocabs bring different meanings to the knower. This also involves the how vocabularies manipulate the knower. Any suggestions on this 2 topic :huh: ?

By the way, the reason I chose this topic is that I think my CAS experience are some really useful personal examples for me to talk about (TOK essays need PERSONAL examples…) That's how I think! And actually topic 7 is somehow similar with this topic as well! It talks quite a lot about languages…and you're right…vocabs do shape how we think in some ways...

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Hey everyone,

I also chose this topic and after talking to my teacher about the topic chosen, this can be set as a very good topic to be explored, becasue it is the most connected to IB life, personal experience and all the things the examiners like.

Something very tricky that must be considered is the word-count. 1200-1600 is not alot at all. So the choice should be very focused and up to the point.

A path can be taken as mentioned above for the subject areas, also can be written for the oppositions of math vs. natural science, math vs. CAS ; or even just verbal vs. non-verbal knowledge.

Everyone should be thinking of personal examples. Sometimes they are the best ones. And they should be thing that you have experienced, because it really gives away a sense if it is not own one.

That is from me. Have a good time writing and Merry Christmas.

Bonzaiid

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